Kit Revisions (Monks)

[Dakk]

Or you could give all monk kits the same abilities at level 1, and include an innate ability (which is removed at level 2) that lets you switch from the basic kit and chose from a few different specialty kits. That would take care of the animation issue.

 

I'm curious, how do you read from clab table?

 

 

In subtledoctor Faerûn, clab table reads you!

 

 

 

/OT

Edited October 21, 2014 by Dakk

[subtledoctor]

I don't understand the question? Read from?

 

I meant, if Jarno is to be believed, you can make new monk kits with their own CLAB files to read, you just can't make them selectable via K_M_x files. So once you switch to the kit it's fine and should function normally with whatever CLAB abilities you want to give it.

 

If that was a typo and you meant how would you *remove* an innate ability from a CLAB, I figure you would GA_ the ability at first level, and AP_ a spell at second level that uses opcode 146 to remove the 1st-level ability. So you could choose at 1st level to specialize as a certain style of monk; or you could ignore it and stick to the vanilla kit.

 

And of course all that jiggery-pokery would all be OG-only; on EE games you would just choose the kits at CharGen. In fact this could be a method to backport the two EE kits to the OG.

Edited October 21, 2014 by subtledoctor

[kreso]

monk ..........................function.....normally........................................... jiggery-pokery.................................................

Edited October 22, 2014 by kreso

[subtledoctor]

Careful with that quote-editing knife, sir, you might cut yourself!

 

Hey I don't advocate doing any of that - just giving a proof-of-concept (concept-of-concept?) of an improvement on Jarno's idea of starting with a fighter(!). It's not for KR - KR isn't doing added kits, and Demi would hate doing kits for one class differently from another class.

 

BUT it's not a bad method, I use it for my kensai, which is loads better than the vanilla kensai - and, I daresay, even better than KR's kensai (though I admit being biased) for at least accurately reflecting the kit description.

Edited October 22, 2014 by subtledoctor

[kreso]

Well, please do try that with monk, I'm farily curious if it may work. Fwiw, a DnD kensai has nothing to do with either KR or SoB version of it, let alone BG2 original implementation.

And I don't really like KR kensai too much myself - it's too complicated for (my) conception of a sword-saint.

 

I admit being biased

[subtledoctor]

Well, please do try that with monk, I'm farily curious if it may work.

Sigh. You had to say that didn't you. I spent 2 hours doing this last night, I now have a rough draft of a mod backporting the two EE kits to the OG. (EDIT: tested it out, it seems to work!)

 

[removed because it's not something that should be distributed. let me know if you want to take a look though.]

 

It copies three spells (spcl236, spcl239, and spcl822) for which I didn't check animations, so that may not work. And there is no alignment check for switching to Sun Soul/Dark Moon - if there should be, it would have to be added to the scripts. But anyway this is really just a proof-of-concept... I'm pretty sure it is illegal to distribute those three spells, so don't publish this or distribute it or sell it or anything. But feel free to check it out for now...

 

Now back to your regularly scheduled KR discussion programming.

Edited November 5, 2014 by subtledoctor

[bradinmemph]

any thoughts on giving monks at epic lvl an hla that uis a special ki abl that boost fist damage to equal to +5 weap for hit ... for x rounds.. can even be short duration.. seems with such a strong focus on unarmed.. that at epic lvls a monk should beable to hold its own.... mages have spells at epic to deal with that lvl of protection.. fighters weapons.. clerics spells.. givwe the monk s ultra high lvl ki that short term allows penetration for +4 or +5 to hit .. or make the fist +1 per 5lvls.. though a short duration high lvl KI or HLA might be better

[Istfemer]

Are Monks allowed to wear robes?

 

Monks & robes have a very strong connection, you know.

[Istfemer]

Btw, a question to Demivrgvs:

 

Are Monks Warriors or Priests within KR, thematically speaking?

They don't get bonus HP from 17+ CON, so I'd say they are Priests.

Extended Edition(s) wiki also lists them as Priests but is not very consistent in this, IIRC.

[Demivrgvs]

any thoughts on giving monks at epic lvl an hla that uis a special ki abl that boost fist damage to equal to +5 weap for hit ... for x rounds.. can even be short duration.. seems with such a strong focus on unarmed.. that at epic lvls a monk should beable to hold its own.... mages have spells at epic to deal with that lvl of protection.. fighters weapons.. clerics spells.. givwe the monk s ultra high lvl ki that short term allows penetration for +4 or +5 to hit .

I'd like to remember that the enemies immune to +3 enchantment can be counted on one hand (2x demi-lich, 1x Ravager and 1x WK creature I don't remember right now - I can check if necessary). That being said, the idea is kinda nice. I'll think about it.

 

Are Monks allowed to wear robes?

 

Monks & robes have a very strong connection, you know.

I'm sympathetic to this, but BG robes are clearly "mage robes" imo. We would have to tweak robes themselves before even considering this idea.

 

Are Monks Warriors or Priests within KR, thematically speaking?

They don't get bonus HP from 17+ CON, so I'd say they are Priests.

Extended Edition(s) wiki also lists them as Priests but is not very consistent in this, IIRC.

It's hard to say. Within KR they have warrior thac0 table, and the best saves of all classes (with no weak save type). I could say they a sort of Kensai/priest with fists as their weapon of choice.

 

Regarding 17+ CON not giving them any hit point, don't worry, that will be changed as soon as I release KR's stat tables.

[kreso]

Regarding Monks - at level 14, they don't get +2 to saves but MR bonus.

[Demivrgvs]

Regarding Monks - at level 14, they don't get +2 to saves but MR bonus.

What? How did that survived all this time? Several players reached ToB with the monk without reporting it. I cannot check it right know if it's a typo in the clab (using old file at 14th lvl instead of new one) or if the new spl wasn't correctly set to give saves instead of mr. I'll fix it asap. Can you fix it locally for testing purpose on your run?

[kreso]

 

Regarding Monks - at level 14, they don't get +2 to saves but MR bonus.

What? How did that survived all this time? Several players reached ToB with the monk without reporting it. I cannot check it right know if it's a typo in the clab (using old file at 14th lvl instead of new one) or if the new spl wasn't correctly set to give saves instead of mr. I'll fix it asap. Can you fix it locally for testing purpose on your run?

 

I did notice +3 MR, but I tought it was something hardcoded. Now I see that it's the CLAB spell spcl8something, it's +3mr and should have +2 saves instead.

Yeah, I fixed it, np. I have to write here such stuff or I forget them

[bradinmemph]

well remember its not just creatures innately immune to higher lvls of weap enchants.. its all the wayss mages and priest can make themselves harder to hit.. mantle prot mag weaps.. imp mantle etc...
and wiz clrs fighters even theives have means of countering that with higher lvl enchant weaps or spells.. to break thru etc...

monks arent really weapons focused and to make a monk use a weapion to deal with all the high lvl priest and wiz.. who use such protections is silly... makes a lot more sense for a 2 hla sequence 1st one buys +4 ench with hands..for to hit only not even a added bonus... if passive always on is too much make it activate 0 cast time.. dur 1 turn.. and make the second hla same deal as the first except +5 ench for to hit calcs.. and requires the lower lvl hla

[Demivrgvs]

I already said I your suggested HLAs seem a good idea. I'll think about implementing a similar thing as soon as we'll reach HLAs, but my priority is to finally work on all other classes first.

 

When it comes to monks and the enchantment lvl of their fists I would also like to get some feedback from players who truly tried them in-game. I saw a no-reload run of Kreso on Bioware forums and I've seen him encounter immune opponents a few times within BG2, but it didn't seem a problem. Am I wrong?

 

I might be persuaded to change the +x progression (e.g. making it faster, or cap at +4), but I don't necessarily thing that having to rely on weapons (e.g katana and darts are really fitting imo) in few occasions is such a bad thing as long as it doesn't happen too often. Also keep in mind KR's Monk is much more proficient than vanilla monk when using weapons because the base +1 apr is applied to them.

 

As always, to refine all of this stuff I need feedback from actual in-game testing, there's a limit to what I can design on paper. That's why I always stress out players asking for feedback.