Kit Revisions (Monks)

[kreso]

Tried it out with setting csting time to 1. Mages can prebuff succesfully. If all seem ok with it, make it so. Much more balanced now.

[Kalindor]

Casting Time 1 is fine with me. Also fine with it being a HLA.

 

*Edit: Can you make it un-interruptable?

Edited June 24, 2013 by Kalindor

[Demivrgvs]

Slow Time

Tried it out with setting csting time to 1. Mages can prebuff succesfully. If all seem ok with it,

make it so. Much more balanced now.

Cool, call me

.

 

Casting Time 1 is fine with me. Also fine with it being a HLA.

 

Can you make it un-interruptable?

I've flagged it as non-magical ability, but I don't remember if that makes it non-interruptable. Anyway, it's really hard to interrupt such a fast casting time (it's almost an instant). As a matter of fact, Wholeness of Body still has casting time 1 from vanilla but I guess no one noticed it because of how fast it is anyway.

 

Empty Body

I have not enough time to fix the apr issue before falling asleep (it's not a quick thing to handle), but I'll do that tomorrow unless kreso is not the only one liking my alternative solution mentioned here.

[Kalindor]

I would personally prefer the ethereal state to the incorporeal state, but if it can't be done then so be it.

[kreso]

I've managed to upload 2 short videos of Slow Time ability. Not that this means anything now anyway , but I never uploaded a video before and wanted to check it out. Turns out, I took 2 hours to upload both...

casting time 0

casting time 1

[Mike1072]

casting time 0

Heh, talk about OP.

[Demivrgvs]

Slow Time

I've managed to upload 2 short videos of Slow Time ability. Not that this means anything now anyway , but I never uploaded a video before and wanted to check it out. Turns out, I took 2 hours to upload both...

casting time 0

casting time 1

Wow, it's fantastic how even a relatively small change such as increasing casting time by 1 can make all the difference in the world.

 

 

Empty Body

I would personally prefer the ethereal state to the incorporeal state, but if it can't be done then so be it.

Now I have kreso for incorporeal and you for ethereal.

 

Anyway, I'm the first to always stick to PnP if possible, but one question has remained unanswered: doesn't the current Empty Body (aka 1 round immunity but cannot attack) heavily overlap with Abundant Step in terms of "how and when you'd use them"? If not, I'm really fine keeping PnP Empty Body.

 

My fear is that unless you want to use Empty Body as a bait, and tank/absorb something for 1 round, I'm not sure I'd use it over Abundant Step most of the times because the latter can not only make you avoid danger (even performing as a sort of Inner Focus like Emprtty Body does, though to a lesser extent of those two abilities) but it also instantly reposition you in a better place, fully able to retaliate in that round. Am I missing something?

Edited June 25, 2013 by Demivrgvs

[kreso]

Empty Body

Anyway, I'm the first to always stick to PnP if possible, but one question has remained unanswered: doesn't the current Empty Body (aka 1 round immunity but cannot attack) heavily overlap with Abundant Step in terms of "how and when you'd use them"? If not, I'm really fine keeping PnP Empty Body.

My concern is how Empty Body overlaps with Wizard Slayer's Inner Focus.

 

My fear is that unless you want to use Empty Body as a bait, and tank/absorb something for 1 round, I'm not sure I'd use it over Abundant Step most of the times because the latter can not only make you avoid danger (even performing as a sort of Inner Focus like Emprtty Body does, though to a lesser extent of those two abilities) but it also instantly reposition you in a better place, fully able to retaliate in that round. Am I missing something?

Most of the spells AI casts are "targeted", they follow you around. That's why I find Empty Body so powerful, something such as this should be imo WS "exclusive".

Abudnant Step, otoh, is better vs non-spellcasters.

[Kalindor]

Agree that Empty Body is an Inner Focus on steroids. You could always reduce the magic immunity if you wanted but leave the immunity to physical attacks. However, in that case it may indeed overlap with Abundant Step too much.

 

I am concerned that the proposed incorporeal state is both an offensive and defensive buff, and would prefer it if you removed the THAC0 bonus. I am not sure how an incorporeal thing is able to physically fight anyhow.

[Lawlight]

I've managed to upload 2 short videos of Slow Time ability. Not that this means anything now anyway , but I never uploaded a video before and wanted to check it out. Turns out, I took 2 hours to upload both...

casting time 0

casting time 1

 

You convinsed me.

 

Empty Body

Or you could leave it as it is and exclude it from Ki Pool (once per day ability).

[Demivrgvs]

Empty Body

Agree that Empty Body is an Inner Focus on steroids. You could always reduce the magic immunity if you wanted but leave the immunity to physical attacks. However, in that case it may indeed overlap with Abundant Step too much.

Well, PnP etherealness does have a couple of weaknesses:

1) move at half speed

2) can be affected by abjurations

3) vulnerable to force effects

I'm not sure they would drastically change the ability though 1) might help making it overlap slightly less with Abundant Step. Not sure what 2) could mean within BG other than vulnerability to Imprisonment, and even 3) (if implementable) isn't such a big deal with vanilla's repertoire of spells.

 

I am concerned that the proposed incorporeal state is both an offensive and defensive buff, and would prefer it if you removed the THAC0 bonus. I am not sure how an incorporeal thing is able to physically fight anyhow.

Like shadows and ghosts, and the +4 thac0 within AD&D simulates what 3E turned into "touch attacks" which bypasses armors.

 

If you wish we could try a fixed Empty Body (I've already re-done it via itm to impose no apr) with half speed penalty first and see if it's still too effective, if yes then I guess it's either my suggestion (incorporeal) or Lawlight's one (only 1/day).

 

Edit: Not to mention we could make it require casting time 1. It would still be not interruptable and effective in melee, but hopefully it might help making it harder to perform like Inner Focus.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Demivrgvs

[kreso]

PnP Ethereal creatures can also be hit by certain creatures as well. I think, Refinements mod allowed +3 weapons and higher to still work, aka Mantle.

[Ardanis]

About the "impossible to kill" thing, I think the monk class is the best suited for it. Fighters stand like a wall and shrug off whatever punishment comes at them, wizards erect impenetrable magic defenses, whereas monks are elusive and hard to catch.

[kreso]

Monk - one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful kit imo. Lacks HP to truly tank, lacks exceptional strenght to deal damage early. Yet, due to his high apr and Stealth feature preforms decently well in BG1, and excells at stunning oponnents with THAC0 boost from stealth. With some str equipment, matches and even surpasses fighter in terms of damage, for the sheer apr number. Immunities are great, Ki pool abilities exelllent as well. Slow time, even if tweaked, I still find very powerful, if not bordeline OP. It's only use is to kill mages usually, but if a mage is not under stoneskin/pfmw he's dead, since he won't be able to erect defences again. If I was to try a no-reload game, I'd pick this class for my protagonist. Paladin would come second.

[Demivrgvs]

Fighting style stances will have to wait, but let's see what can be done in shorter time frames.

 

Judging by Lawlight and kreso reports I'd say the character is fine in BG1 now. It's not an "easy mode" class like the True Fighter, but high apr, stealth and stunning attacks can close the gap as long as he is played smart and not as a plain warrior.

 

For BG2 instead I think kreso is finding him almost OP because with a simply Haste he gets up to 6 apr (which combined with the Gauntlets of Crushing can be really devastating), and vanilla's Improved Haste makes him go around with 10 apr for entire encounters. On a side note, the planned SRv4 IH would not even work correctly with the current Monk's apr because of the cap.

 

Now, I know some players won't like this, but I suggest to re-introduce vanilla's immunity to slow and haste. Not only it's a AD&D thing but I actually think it makes sense as an extension of Purity of Body (3E kept only immunity to disease) if you consider it as the monk not "accepting" external alterations to his body. Extending it even more, level 17 Timeless Body could be modified to grant a couple of immunities such as polymorph and/or petrification (the current Slow Time will be an HLA).

 

Other than that, I think I only need to slightly improve Ki Arrow and decide if I want Quivering Palm to become part of the Ki Pool or not. As Kreso says I'm quite sure the current Monk is already quite great, even without vanilla's ridiculous magic resistance.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Demivrgvs