BG1/BGEE Items

[Dakk]

Hi czacki! First of all I was mixing up the mods when I wrote that, it's supposed to be IR. IR is Item Revisions and SR is Spell Revisions. Both are found here on G3, and are made by Demivrgvs.

 

Item Revisions modify Relair's Mistake (aka. Cloak of the Wolf), giving it regen. Like so:

Cloak of the Wolf
Special Abilities (once per day):
Polymorph Self (Werewolf)
Equipped Abilities:
Regeneration: 1 hp every 12 seconds

Notes: the description suggests Polymorph (werewolf) instead of a normal wolf and I think it makes the item much more interesting.
It didn't have a single 'while equipped' effect, and I've opted for a "moderate" regeneration rate.

Werewolf
STR 19, DEX 16, CON 15, AC 1, THAC0 7, Attacks per Round 2, 1D8+7 slashing damage (Pawns +2)
Regeneration: 2 hp/round, Magic Resistance: 20%

I see that my post that you quoted was badly written. I was curious to know if anyone had used the werewolf form in BG1, as it indeed looks (very) overpowered.

 

Btw, with Spell Revisions, Druids get Regeneration as a spell. I should give a few hps on rest.

[Demivrgvs]

@Dakk, I don't know if the Werewolf form is OP in BG1 because I pretty much never got feedback on it. On paper it does look very potent, and it can be used to turn a weak character (mage, rogue, etc.) into a powerful tank, but it doesn't seem brokenly OP. Can any BG1 tester give me some feedback on this matter?

 

On a side note...today's build does include a revision of all BG1 items but the above Werewolf stuff made me wish to re-work on a particular item...

 

BG1 stuff already packaged:

- Silver Dagger (Werebane) is now a returning throwing dagger, uses a new icon (it was almost identical to Longtooth)
- Heart of the Golem no longer share the icon with Nester/Kylee/Hentold daggers, added +1 AC while equipped
- Dagger of Venom now uses a unique icon with a greenish blade (in-game color tweaked to match it)
- The Claw of Kazgaroth added to IR's main component, minor tweaks (e.g changed from ring to bracers)
- The Horn of Kazgaroth added to IR's main component, minor tweaks (e.g. changed from x charges to 1/day)

 

Now, the crazy idea I had is the following:

- Cloak of the Wolf gets back a "normal" wolf form as per vanilla (though I'd use at least a Dire Wolf)

- turn The Claw of Kazgaroth into a cursed "weapon" which (permanently?) polymorh the wielder into a Werewolf

The latter would fit Kazgaroth's lore kinda well considering it's a lycan shapechanger beast.

 

And speaking of Kazgaroth's lore, I'm not working on it today, but The Horn should probably summon his Blood Warriors instead of granting partial spell immunity and very random-looking stuff imo.

[leania]

 

- Cloak of the Wolf gets back a "normal" wolf form as per vanilla (though I'd use at least a Dire Wolf)

- turn The Claw of Kazgaroth into a cursed "weapon" which (permanently?) polymorh the wielder into a Werewolf

 

And speaking of Kazgaroth's lore, I'm not working on it today, but The Horn should probably summon his Blood Warriors instead of granting partial spell immunity and very random-looking stuff imo.

I love all the ideas, I'm not sure whether the change of Clock of the Wolf would make it valuable or not though.

[Salk]

- The Claw of Kazgaroth added to IR's main component, minor tweaks (e.g changed from ring to bracers)

 

I don't understand the reason of this change and I don't personally like it (I suggest it to revert it back to ring).

 

The crazy ideas sound good enough, in theory. I am actually very fond of the original Claw of Kazgaroth ring and I don't wish to see it changed though. It's unique in both lore and effect. One of the items that, according to me, should have been kept intact.

[Istfemer]

I'm in agreement with Salk here.

 

One may argue about PnP Claw being too large for a wearable ring (IIRC this was the point raised against it being a ring) etc...

But making the claw into bracers instead — one-piece item into a two-piece item — is just silly IMO

 

At the very least, this necessitates a rename to Claws of Kazgaroth.

[Dakk]

@Dakk, I don't know if the Werewolf form is OP in BG1 because I pretty much never got feedback on it. On paper it does look very potent, and it can be used to turn a weak character (mage, rogue, etc.) into a powerful tank, but it doesn't seem brokenly OP. Can any BG1 tester give me some feedback on this matter?

 

On a side note...today's build does include a revision of all BG1 items but the above Werewolf stuff made me wish to re-work on a particular item...

Now, the crazy idea I had is the following:

- Cloak of the Wolf gets back a "normal" wolf form as per vanilla (though I'd use at least a Dire Wolf)

- turn The Claw of Kazgaroth into a cursed "weapon" which (permanently?) polymorh the wielder into a Werewolf

The latter would fit Kazgaroth's lore kinda well considering it's a lycan shapechanger beast.

 

And speaking of Kazgaroth's lore, I'm not working on it today, but The Horn should probably summon his Blood Warriors instead of granting partial spell immunity and very random-looking stuff imo.

What's the code for the cloak? I can CLUA a couple of levels and the cloak for a fighter, a mage and thief, and see how the werewolf measures up.

Either way I don't really care if it's a werewolf or "normal" wolf, but the regeneration associated with werewolf is kinda neat.

 

Regarding Kazgaroth, I don't recall the Beast being a lycan at all? Wasn't he much more a giant frickin' dinosaur in the first Moonshae book? Though he, or someone possessed by him, was a werewolf in the latter books. But the core of the Beast isn't really associated with lycantropy, is it?

 

Summoning Blood Warriors is kinda cool, but that's very Horn 1A (X horn summon Y things). I kind of like having a silent horn that has other effects. Also, Kazgaroth himself would of course (IMHO) not use the horn to summon warriors, as the horn is a scavenged part of his body.

 

When it comes to making the Ring of Kazgaroth a cursed polymorph-item I'm afraid it might go from a situational-but-unique item to never-used item? Or worse(?), having it used regularly with a handy break curse memorized in the party.

[Demivrgvs]

Kazgoroth's lore:

The origins of Kazgoroth lurk in the past, nearly as distant as those of the goddess herself. In the pantheon of the Realms, the Beast is manifested as an aspect of Malar (MAY-larr), the Beastlord. On the Moonshaes, however, this aspect has a specific purpose: the disruption of the Balance.

The Beast is a formidable foe in combat, yet whenever possible it seeks to do battle through shrewdness and trickery rather than straightforward melee...only struck by magical weapons of +2...no magic resistance against druidical spells...shape change at will...down to halfling size...cannot assume a form larger than its own...cause lycanthropy with its bite, if it chooses...detect magic and detect invisibility in 24" radius at will...permanent charm upon a victim at a range of 1" or less. A side effect of this charm is that the victim must roll a successful saving vs. spell each week or lose a point of charisma permanently (to a minimum of 3). Once per week it can cast a death spell at a character of 7th level or lower...unique ability to perform a corrupted type of mass charm spell, creating for itself a band of fanatically loyal undead troops known as Blood Warriors...up to 500 individuals...as long as the unit has a strong commander to serve as the Beast's lieutenant...

...Kazgoroth draws power from the goddess herself...If Kazgoroth is slain by any means other than the Sword of Cymrych Hugh, it will return within 3d6 years. If this sword is used to kill it, and the remains of the beast are burned to ashes, it is rumored that it can be destroyed permanently.

I was just trying to make the items have at least some connection to the beast lore, but considering most of you are not convinced at all by my idea, and that for some reason nobody has a problem with a giant claw being used as a ring I guess I'll leave them unchanged for now.

[Salk]

Demi,

 

two objections:

 

1) The fact that it causes lycanthropy with its bite automatically implies it is a werewolf? The shape changes mentioned in the lore you provided speak of "down to halfling size"... Wearing his claw is not exactly piercing oneself with its teeth either

 

2) A giant claw sounds bad as ring (which admittedly does, but at least we players are used to it) but makes more sense to you as pair of bracers?

[Demivrgvs]

The claw of Kazgoroth (btw, BG wrongly spell its name Kazgaroth, should I correct it?)

Demi,

 

two objections:

 

1) The fact that it causes lycanthropy with its bite automatically implies it is a werewolf? The shape changes mentioned in the lore you provided speak of "down to halfling size"... Wearing his claw is not exactly piercing oneself with its teeth either

 

2) A giant claw sounds bad as ring (which admittedly does, but at least we players are used to it) but makes more sense to you as pair of bracers?

1) It doesn't imply that the beast was a werewolf, but at least there would be a connection (shapechange ability and lycantropy curse). You think that random bonuses to saves and AC (btw, why the hell the claw counters missiles so well?!?) make more sense?

 

2) you're probably right, that's why I'm suggesting to turn the claw into a sort of "weapon". Pretty much anything imo makes more sense than a ring.

[Salk]

The claw of Kazgoroth (btw, BG wrongly spell its name Kazgaroth, should I correct it?)

Demi,

 

two objections:

 

1) The fact that it causes lycanthropy with its bite automatically implies it is a werewolf? The shape changes mentioned in the lore you provided speak of "down to halfling size"... Wearing his claw is not exactly piercing oneself with its teeth either

 

2) A giant claw sounds bad as ring (which admittedly does, but at least we players are used to it) but makes more sense to you as pair of bracers?

1) It doesn't imply that the beast was a werewolf, but at least there would be a connection (shapechange ability and lycantropy curse). You think that random bonuses to saves and AC (btw, why the hell the claw counters missiles so well?!?) make more sense?

 

2) you're probably right, that's why I'm suggesting to turn the claw into a sort of "weapon". Pretty much anything imo makes more sense than a ring.

 

1) The random bonuses do not make much sense if we look at the lore but the Beast has such a wide array of powers that it's not inconceivable to have the claw grant some hidden ones - the countering of missiles is a consequence of the blurring that it grants to the wielder

 

2) I imagine the claw to be not just a single ring but rather a set of brass knuckles covering most of the fingers - I guess it could be changed not to bracers but rather gloves - I'd still keep it a ring though

 

PS About the name, I'd vote for correcting the spelling

[kreso]

2) A giant claw sounds bad as ring (which admittedly does, but at least we players are used to it) but makes more sense to you as pair of bracers?

Fwiw, this was my idea. I have no trouble envisioning it on bracer slot for a number of reasons.

1) All in-game bracers/gauntlets come in pairs, hence if one hand is taken by the Claw you can't wear them - it's cursed anyway.

2) BG1 is filled with magical rings as it is, and there aren't nearly as much hand items

3) a Claw makes much less sense as a ring (and why wouldn't you put a ring on a claw? It's big enough, even it's bam has fingers)

 

I'd probably vote for a rewamp of it's abilities/usability flags. The wearer should (imo) become a bit more "beastly", and a bit less "human". I haven't really given much tought about the in-game implementation of this idea however.

Regain some HP when he kills something?

[Salk]

kreso,

 

the main problem with your wish of "revamping" the Claw of Kazgaroth is that you're trying to mess with a very unique item BG players grew very fond of. It has a special place and its abilities mixed with the curse and its special lore make it truly stand out.

 

In the end, the Claw Of Kazgaroth is one of those few items that should not really be touched (I might understand changing it from ring to glove) because 1) it's unique and charming 2) doesn't require nerfing or greater power than it has now.

 

My 2 cents.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I am with Salk here...

Besides, the Claw is not a gauntlet, AKA a mitten that covers also the half length of the arm, from the hand up to the elbow. As that's the part that needs to be protected by say Bracers of Defense, fr example. So it's a ring.

And if you say you can only equip one at a hand... who's to say the Rings of Protections are not magical bracelets ? Yes, if you notice, those can be ring shaped too.

[kreso]

kreso,

 

the main problem with your wish of "revamping" the Claw of Kazgaroth is that you're trying to mess with a very unique item BG players grew very fond of.

Yea. Then again, Necklace of Missiles is also "a fan favourite" (Fireballs in BG1 rule). IR changes it litteraly from scratch, thus making it into HP boosting item. We can argue about preferences (I find Necklace just as iconic) lbut that doesn't change the fact that there's a number of items changed to a more significant extent than the others. I don't know why CoK would be special case.

Yeah, blur in old BG1 looked awesome, and before various tweakpacks etc. you could stack the Claw with a ring +/magical plate to obtain grand AC, I have fond memories of this item as well.

Still, I'd make it more specific-class/kit oriented (there isn't a single monk-specific item in BG1 for example).

 

 

because 1) it's unique and charming 2) doesn't require nerfing or greater power than it has now.

 

This is very subjective. I prefer items balanced either on lore or PnP sources (as much as the game allows for it without breaking) rather than arbitrary mishmash what this item is right now. The only such nonsensical item I can think of is Shuruppak's Plate.

[Scourge]

I agree with Kreso here.

Especially when he talks about the fact that IR touches many items that are fan favorite. He was spot on when he talked about the necklace of missiles and to be sincere, I use it everytime that I don't use IR inside the bandit camp and I'm particularly found of it.

And I too think the items of khazgaroth needs to be re-worked.

I prefer items balanced either on lore or PnP sources (as much as the game allows for it without breaking) rather than arbitrary mishmash what this item is right now. The only such nonsensical item I can think of is Shuruppak's Plate.

Fully agree. 101%. You couldn't have sold it better. And don't tell me a claw from a mythical beast that actually counters missile because you get blurry makes sense

I'd probably vote for a rewamp of it's abilities/usability flags. The wearer should (imo) become a bit more "beastly", and a bit less "human". I haven't really given much tought about the in-game implementation of this idea however.

I like this. The only limit with such items is the creativity. By the way, was the idea of actually adding other pieces of khazgaroth discarded or never thought of?