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DavidW

Version 24(BETA) of Sword Coast Stratagems released

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Also, I've found Masterwork, Excellent, and possibly also Fine weapons in my game. Where they all come from, I don't remember. I really don't think they all need to exist, do they? Just one level between normal and +1 is needed, right?

Masterwork weapons are from IR; fine weapons are from SCS. AFAIK, they both currently work by overwriting the associated +1 weapons. If you are seeing both types, it's probably because the mods affect a slightly different list of items. IR sticks to melee weapons while SCS also modifies bows.

 

Both components achieve similar results, but their implementation is different: fine weapons are like +1 weapons without the speed factor bonus and ability to hit things immune to non-magic weapons. Masterwork weapons are like +1 weapons without the +1 bonus to damage and ability to hit things immune to non-magic weapons. I can't think of a good reason to install both.

What about Excellent weapons? I've seen very few Fine weapons. It's mostly Excellent (which have a very hard-to-distinguish greenish tint to them usually), and sometimes Masterwork.

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What about Excellent weapons? I've seen very few Fine weapons. It's mostly Excellent (which have a very hard-to-distinguish greenish tint to them usually), and sometimes Masterwork.

Oh. The SCS components refer to them as "fine" weapons/ammo, but in-game they are referred to as excellent weapons and masterwork ammo. Don't look at me.

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What about Excellent weapons? I've seen very few Fine weapons. It's mostly Excellent (which have a very hard-to-distinguish greenish tint to them usually), and sometimes Masterwork.

Oh. The SCS components refer to them as "fine" weapons/ammo, but in-game they are referred to as excellent weapons and masterwork ammo. Don't look at me.

 

Well then since "Fine" and "Excellent" are rather less cool-sounding and PnP than "Masterwork," maybe DavidW and you IR guys could come to an agreement on a list of +1's to replace; then have IR and SCS use the same list, and have SCS skip the component if IR's already got it installed?

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Aren't they trying to do the same thing? Do these two components serve different purposes?

 

One of them is my interpretation of the best way to do a certain thing; the other is Demivrgvs' and Mike1072's. What's the advantage in us trying to reach an agreement?

 

(I'm not saying that there isn't one, just that I haven't yet been told what it is.)

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Aren't they trying to do the same thing? Do these two components serve different purposes?

 

One of them is my interpretation of the best way to do a certain thing; the other is Demivrgvs' and Mike1072's. What's the advantage in us trying to reach an agreement?

 

(I'm not saying that there isn't one, just that I haven't yet been told what it is.)

 

You've read enough of my whiny angst-filled posts about how there isn't a more unified approach to modding BG2 to know that I'm always in favor of more coordinated efforts to do things. So there's that as a foundation.

 

Number two, it increases the amount of uncertainty and ambiguity for players when modding to know that these two mods try to do the same thing, but they're not the same, and so now the player has to waste time researching before the installation--do they really do the same thing? what are the differences in the placement? should only one be installed, or should I install both? is it better to install this one or that one? which one is more balanced? are there even mechanical differences? (yes, but you won't know until you post about it and Mike answers like he did above) are there incompatibilities if one mod is installed without its component?

 

Secondly, it's really confusing to have both Masterwork and Excellent items in the game. At the end of the day, what would either you or Demi/Mike lose by giving control of this component to the other (coupled with a "hey, I think these items should be excluded from the change because _______, what do you guys think?") It's not such a huge big deal that I would think either mod author feels emotionally attached to his own choice of placements. I contend that the less overlapping work done by different mod authors, especially ones who are so in demand by the community, the more new stuff can be created/bugs can be fixed, the better we are off.

 

But I'm doing none of this work myself clearly, so this is just my loudmouth opinion.

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At the end of the day, what would either you or Demi/Mike lose by giving control of this component to the other

 

(1) Lots more work. The component is already written and has been stable for years, and I'm perfectly happy with how it works. You're committing me to have to thoroughly research someone else's mod component, see whether it does exactly what I think is sensible, and then get into a negotiation with that someone else about any points of disagreement.

(2) Dependencies. This is a component that I like, that I think fits reasonably well philosophically with SCS's overall flavour and philosophy, and that is well established and well known. If I remove it, I commit players to either give it up or have to research other mods. If they're not philosophically inclined to IR's relatively maximalist approach to changes, they may not want it or may not even think to look there. There are not-inconsiderable numbers of people who just play with fixpack-plus-SCS.

 

And I think the benefit is pretty negligible. Players either do, or do not, care about the precise nuances of the difference between the two components. If they don't, they can install either component, at whim. Both, after all, do exactly what it says in their respective readmes. If they do, their interests are not particularly being solved by a reduction of choice. I suppose if you don't read the readmes then you might end up getting into trouble by installing both - and I can vaguely see the case for blocking SCS's component if IR's is installed on those grounds - but ultimately, to be honest I'm not that bothered about people who don't read the readme.

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By (2) you mean SCS is dependent on this component? And what if IR is also dependent on its version of the component? Since you're suggesting I was foolish to install both, and wouldn't have done so if I read the readme, which should I install? I didn't find anything about the interaction of these two components in the readmes or in the forums.

 

Wouldn't a solution that doesn't involve you talking to Demi about every little placement (since that is the time-consuming aspect, right?) simply be for the two versions to adopt the same name and stats for the weapons (ideally the same item file), so a player could install both (to prevent the aforementioned dependencies from being broken) and not be smacked in the face by the obvious in-game evidence of two mods doing the same thing slightly different ways?

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By (2) you mean SCS is dependent on this component?

No, that's not what I said. I don't mean anything beyond what I say in the paragraph: "dependencies" is just a label for the point I'm making.

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By (2) you mean SCS is dependent on this component?
No, that's not what I said. I don't mean anything beyond what I say in the paragraph: "dependencies" is just a label for the point I'm making.
In other words, there are people that have grown to like the changes the component makes and we do not wish to make those people have the need to "move to" or "install" -another mods that they are unfamiliar to get the same/similar effect(even if they have the very same code). And that's a very good point, and having more than one, actually means that it's more likely that neither one will have/cause errors, in a way. Edited by Jarno Mikkola

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Installing file(s) nashkelwolf_ee.d

Compiling 1 dialogue file ...

WARNING: internal label [2] not found in processed DLG [sHOPKN]

ERROR: processing .D actions [tb#compile_patches/stratagems/initial\dlg/nashkelw

olf_ee.d]: Invalid_argument("index out of bounds")

Stopping installation because of error.

 

THis happens when i try to install on enhanced edition, could someone please help?

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*Dueregar mages in CI have a considerable level boost; they cast II, globes, Chaos etc.

 

Just checked, in the original game DUEMAG01 and DUEMAG02 have magic missile and scorcher memorized in their 5th level slots, which seems to fool the algorithm for determining max spell level.

 

Further findings:

 

*Removing blanket immunity to 5th level spells from liches makes them vulnerable to the wand of cloudkill (Rakshasas too I guess, haven't tried). Interestingly there is a zero casting time cloudkill spell present in game (spwi016), you could possibly set the wand to cast this and grant lich/Rak immunity to it through 206.

 

*If "smarter celestials" is installed and Ascension is not then the fallen solar doesn't summon allies (2*DEMOSUM1, 1*DEMSUC01, 1*TELALU1). Nobody reported this for years, I guess most players have SCS + Ascension.

 

-Edit: Maybe the regular and Ascension fallen solars could still use the same script, but before spawning allies they could check for the death of FINSOL02/FINSOL03, as these guardians are only fought in vanilla.

Edited by polytope

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pwarden.cre (the planar prison warden) appears broken, he doesn't receive a fighter/mage script for his "default" script (I think it should be DW#2FMG9), he's also classed as a F/M/C (like most of your demons) instead of a F/M. I have an inkling that this is a conflict between the SCS demon and mage components.

 

Mages display the wrong string when firing spell triggers; 26423 ("Thank you...I shall do my best to locate these men and bring them to justice.") instead of 26243.

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pwarden.cre (the planar prison warden) appears broken, he doesn't receive a fighter/mage script for his "default" script (I think it should be DW#2FMG9), he's also classed as a F/M/C (like most of your demons) instead of a F/M. I have an inkling that this is a conflict between the SCS demon and mage components.

 

I'm certain that's the problem now; DEMOSUM4.cre is also affected. I uninstalled smarter mages, changed these demons' classes to F/M and reinstalled smarter mages which gave them both proper F/M scripts this time.

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