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DavidW

Version 24(BETA) of Sword Coast Stratagems released

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Hi there !

 

About bears :

 

The vanilla behaviour for bears is the following : there are neutral but become enemy if you are walking close to them.

 

Except if you want to change this behaviour, I think SCS should stick with the vanilla behaviour and allow players to make their own choice about fighting bears or not. ^^

 

looking BGvanilla script, I also think that the intented bear behaviour was to forbid them to attack the party if there is some druids/rangers in range(very nice idea.) But I think the vanilla script "bear.bcs" doesn't work correctly about it. (bears turn enemy even if you are a druid/ranger)

 

 

 

Wiverns:

Just an idea, I think It's not in SCS scope. But what about give to flying creatures hight resistance to slashing/crushing/percing to simulate the fact that they are flying!!

http://www.dotd.com/mm/MM00303.htm

 

 

 

My last request is gonna hurt weak hearts but I beg you to consider it and think about it.

 

Once upon a time, while designers were working on BG2, many impatient players made the following request : "Please, let allow characters to move faster, it takes too much time to explore wild areas!"

 

So be it : for Bg2, designers decided to increase the speed of all races/class/animation the player can use and play for his own character (at character creation meu :human/elf/dwarf/gnome/halfling/half-orc ). I think speed have been increased by 20% in comparaison to Bg1, maybe more.

 

So what is the problem now ?

 

Of course, the problem is that speed add some important strategical fighting opportunity in BG. (that's why Demivrgys made a component reducing speed walking in heavy armor ).

 

So if you allow the player to move 20% faster while declining this boost to enemy, it makes the game very unfair and more easy.

 

Especially all BG1 enemy don't benefit at all about this "bonus speed". If you play BGT, you will see that most enemy are incredibly slow.

I remember me playing BG1vanilla 10 years ago : I was very scare about fighting the Ogre at the south of friendlyInn. This "boss" used to cost me many reload and sweat.

 

==> Now, with BGT, you can hit and run him easily with your whole team or even with a single mage level 1 wielding a sling.

 

 

Ok I know it may be not good or cheating to hit and run too much but damn, 90% of BG1 enemy are too slow. I am sure they would remain a very poor chalenge even with 600Hp and -10thac0.

 

Most of Bg1 monsters are standard fighters without many strategic choice except hit with melee/ranged weapons.

==> Speed is very important for these creatures and if you play BGT, you will see that something is wrong in comparaison to BG1 vanilla.

 

InBG1 vanilla, you cannot hit and run a single enemy, except zombies.

 

What about BG2? In Bg2 you also can find many BG1creatures and of course with a so much slow walking speed, these cratures looks very pathetic.

What about the new BG2/ToB creature : designers also didn't improve the speed of the new BG2 creatures (liche are slow like hell, same for fiends, orcs, lizards,giants, skeletons etc...)

The result is less dramatic in BG2 considering speed have a less strategical function at hight level. (but it's still annoying and unfair)

 

 

It could be interesting to make a component in order to repair this injustice! :)

 

THe BG2 tweak pack already offer it : Use BG Walking Speeds (BETA) .

"Use BG Walking Speeds (BETA)

From Tutufix, this will make folks walk slower, as they did in the original Baldur's Gate. While it's most useful for Tutu and BGT players, you will be able to install it on a bogstandard BG2 game. Since this component had some issues in Tutufix (notably when interacting with polymorph or haste/slow spells) it's being labeled a beta until the issues can be worked out."

 

 

==> Unfortunately, this component is in Beta and may be not very stable. (I have read some warning about it on BG1 NPC readme)

 

I have also another idea : increase the speed walking of all creatures animations.(except human/elf/dwarf/gnome/halfling/half-orc)

It would allow a faster gameplay and many players may prefer to play with BG2 speed.

Edited by DrAzTiK

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So what is the problem now ?
Erhm, stop using the boots of speed and the armor penalties, you'll notice that the monsters are as fast as the players. Now, you can use the armor penalty but the component should let know that it's the same for everyone, not just the party members.

 

Yeah, on the wyverns, and let's make the dragons have more damage resistance and the worm creatures too as they are crawling through the ground and thus incorporeal for most parts... irony, a bit. :D

Now how do you figure that the piercing penalty(damage resistance) happens on to a flying creature ? After all, all the ranged weapons are piercing ones, well except the thrown hammers/axes and sling shots... And I bet you can spear a creature as easily when it's flying as on the ground, if yous spear is sharp enough. And the same goes for all the others ... Or does my jumping prevent me from being hurt with a gun shot ?

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So what is the problem now ?
Erhm, stop using the boots of speed and the armor penalties, you'll notice that the monsters are as fast as the players. Now, you can use the armor penalty but the component should let know that it's the same for everyone, not just the party members.
Your statement makes absolutely no sense Jarno. If "monsters are as fast as the players" in the first place, installing armor penalties would slow them the same way as player characters, not more. Actually, with armor causing speed penalties the issue Draztik is complaining about would be reduced because many creatures don't wear armors (e.g. you would not outrun bears so much while wearing full plate) and those who does do not always have the expensive full plates. Edited by Demivrgvs

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Your statement makes absolutely no sense Jarno. If "monsters are as fast as the players" in the first place, installing armor penalties would slow them the same way as player characters, not more. Actually, with armor causing speed penalties the issue Draztik is complaining about would be reduced because many creatures don't wear armors (e.g. you would not outrun bears so much while wearing full plate) and those who does do not always have the expensive full plates.
Well, look at it from this perspective... the BG2 does increase the character speed a bit yes... but everything else(the enemies) has the same increase on creatures... as this is mostly based on the creature animations(and their speeds), you can NOT just go and up the speed of the creature and make it equal as the character. I have never been able to run from a hostile group of enemies in vanilla BGT game so much that I could take advantage from it alone... without the boots of speed/haste etc effect. Edited by Jarno Mikkola

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On Bears: I'm pretty certain SCS doesn't affect vanilla bear behaviour at all.

On Wyverns: (a) it's clear from the animation that they aren't flying; (b) AC is abstract enough to cover it anyway.

On walking speed: I think it's a bit of a recipe for bugs, and I also don't want to mess up the synchrony between actual movement speed and how fast the animation moves. (This is a non-ideal aspect of the bear component, TBH.)

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This is a non-ideal aspect of the bear component, TBH.

I never noticed it.

Anyhow, @DrAzTiK - aTweaks makes some monsters move faster. And generally I agree that enemies should use the same walking speed as you.

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Here is your bloc in bear.bsc :

 

IF

Range([GOODCUTOFF],7)

Allegiance(Myself,NEUTRAL)

!See([PC.0.0.DRUID])

!See([PC.0.0.RANGER])

!See([PC.0.0.FIGHTER_DRUID])

!See([PC.0.0.CLERIC_RANGER])

!See([GOODCUTOFF.0.FAIRY])

Global("ENDOFBG1","GLOBAL",0)

THEN

RESPONSE #100

Enemy()

END

 

The variable Global("ENDOFBG1","GLOBAL",0) is what make bears not attacking the party. This line doen't exist in BG2vanilla.

But maybe it is not come from SCS. Damn, who has added this variable and for what ??

 

On Wyverns: (a) it's clear from the animation that they aren't flying

O_o

Edited by DrAzTiK

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It's not mine (at least, not intentionally).

 

"ENDOFBG1" is a variable used by BGT to note which game you're in; it looks as if it's being set so that bear's go-hostile behaviour applies in BG1 but not BG2.

Edited by DavidW

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Here is your bloc in bear.bsc :
--change-log the bear.bcs -file and see which mod add the bloc, by opening the backups it makes in the Change-log -folder... pretty sure it's not SCS. It might be "Harder BG1" mod or something.

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I have made a change log with this result :

 

[WeiDU.exe] WeiDU version 22700

[WeiDU.exe] Using scripting style "BG2"

In state 32, I expected one of these tokens:

[2] ~~

Parse error (state 32) at BEGIN

 

[bG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2] PARSE ERROR at line 28626 column 1-27

Near Text: BEGIN

GLR parse error

 

[bG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2] ERROR at line 28626 column 1-27

Near Text: BEGIN

Parsing.Parse_error

ERROR: parsing [bG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2]: Parsing.Parse_error

 

FATAL ERROR: Parsing.Parse_error

 

?? I have biffed all my files so maybe change-log cannot help

Edited by DrAzTiK

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I have a clean BGT installation and the line Global("ENDOFBG1","GLOBAL",0) now appears in bear.bcs. So the problem come from BGT.

edit : Bears react correcly on a clean BGT install. I have to do more test.

 

OK !!! Bears turn hostile only if Global("ENDOFBG1","GLOBAL",0) or Global("ENDOFBG1","GLOBAL",2). But in my current game, my variable "ENDOFBG1" is set on , surely because Sarevok is dead. That's why bears don't turn hostile anymore.

Edited by DrAzTiK

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I also play BGT and I like consistency throughout the game.

 

Could SCS override BGT's weird choice (if I understood correctly) of having the very same bears act so differently in BG1 and BG2? Meaning they should always turn hostile, if none of the party members belongs to a valid class.

Edited by Salk

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I have made a change log with this result :

...

?? I have biffed all my files so maybe change-log cannot help

Actually if you look into the text of the log, you notice that the weidu.exe is said to be the v22700, I am pretty sure that the weidu.exe you used to install the mods was more up to date... so you just need to extract it from the latest versions archive(Windows Binary) to your game folder and overwrite the existing one and run the .bat again.

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I also play BGT and I like consistency throughout the game.

 

Could SCS override BGT's weird choice (if I understood correctly) of having the very same bears act so differently in BG1 and BG2? Meaning they should always turn hostile, if none of the party members belongs to a valid class.

 

As a technical matter, yes - but it's not really in its remit.

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As a technical matter, yes - but it's not really in its remit.

 

I see. Is it very different from standardizing dragons immunities though? SCS has already a component that makes bear faster and it could be expanded to account for BGT consistency. But I won't insist. :)

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