Version 24(BETA) of Sword Coast Stratagems released

[DavidW]

As a technical matter, yes - but it's not really in its remit.

 

I see. Is it very different from standardizing dragons immunities though? SCS has already a component that makes bear faster and it could be expanded to account for BGT consistency. But I won't insist.

 

(i) Bear speed has nothing to do with bear combat strategy. Standardised dragon immunities is very much part of a tactical component about dragons.

(ii) Bear combat strategy is not something I'm in the business of tactically optimising, especially not in BG2 where no bear is a tactical challenge anyway.

(iii) A reasonable case can be made that non-standard dragon immunities represent oversights or hasty coding. The bear behaviour is quite clearly deliberate.

(iv) I have no idea why BGT does this and have no experience at playing BGT. This makes it dangerous to mess around with BGT's scripting.

(v) I am uninterested in the task of creating consistency between BG1 and BG2. (I don't personally use BGT partly because I regard the two games as different games.)

(vi) Most of all (though, I suppose, related to most of the above), I don't see that it has anything particular to do with SCS. What's the case for doing this that isn't a case for including in SCS absolutely any tweak to the game that you personally want to make?

[Salk]

All valid points.

 

The only thing I can say is that I don't understand the behavior of bears that wouldn't turn hostile when approached by the player's party (with due exceptions) and since SCS is in the business of changing scripts to make things more believable, I thought this was not outside its scope.

[kreso]

Is there a bear in BG2 anywhere? I've seen one or two ankhegs, but that doesn't count...

Edit:

Ah, Beastmaster in CC has a few. We may consider them slow since they're caged and lack exercise and fresh air.

[DavidW]

All valid points.

 

The only thing I can say is that I don't understand the behavior of bears that wouldn't turn hostile when approached by the player's party (with due exceptions) and since SCS is in the business of changing scripts to make things more believable, I thought this was not outside its scope.

 

Okay, fair point. I'll probably fall back on (iv).

[DavidW]

Is there a bear in BG2 anywhere? I've seen one or two ankhegs, but that doesn't count...

Edit:

Ah, Beastmaster in CC has a few. We may consider them slow since they're caged and lack exercise and fresh air.

Those bears will still be fast, I think - this issue of hostility has nothing to do with the fast-bears feature.

[kreso]

Is there a bear in BG2 anywhere? I've seen one or two ankhegs, but that doesn't count...

Edit:

Ah, Beastmaster in CC has a few. We may consider them slow since they're caged and lack exercise and fresh air.

Those bears will still be fast, I think - this issue of hostility has nothing to do with the fast-bears feature.

I guess this proves the point

(ii) .....especially not in BG2 where no bear is a tactical challenge anyway.

[kreso]

I've noticed that skeleton warriors (in BG1) drink potions as well. I don't know if this is intended, but I hope not.

Werevolves in Ulgoth's Beard apperantly don't drop more than 1 Ring of Free action, but one of them (the "sidekick" one) spawns in several copies, all in the same place.

Also, not a bug, but a question about SCS - my guess is that it reads from .2da THAC0 table in determining creatures' THAC0 scores, however it may be modified. Is it possible that you do the same for saving throws (read values from a modified table, not vannila)?

[DavidW]

I've noticed that skeleton warriors (in BG1) drink potions as well. I don't know if this is intended, but I hope not.

Definitely not! (On version 24?)

 

Werevolves in Ulgoth's Beard apperantly don't drop more than 1 Ring of Free action, but one of them (the "sidekick" one) spawns in several copies, all in the same place.

Will chase.

Also, not a bug, but a question about SCS - my guess is that it reads from .2da THAC0 table in determining creatures' THAC0 scores, however it may be modified. Is it possible that you do the same for saving throws (read values from a modified table, not vannila)?

Yes, I read pretty much everything - spell memorization levels, hit points (if externalised), THAC0, saving throws, (as of v25) kit features - off the game's .2da files rather than hardcoding them. That's as much for my convenience as anything else, but it does mean that SCS responds to other mods that change features of the ruleset.

[kreso]

I've noticed that skeleton warriors (in BG1) drink potions as well. I don't know if this is intended, but I hope not.

Definitely not! (On version 24?)

Yes, 24. For example those before Sarevok (underground city) and Durlag's Tower....this only happens with those worth few thousand exp, not regular (64 XP points) skeletons. I didn't notice they drink healing, but do drop them and do use for example, Magic Resistance and similar.

 

 

Also, not a bug, but a question about SCS - my guess is that it reads from .2da THAC0 table in determining creatures' THAC0 scores, however it may be modified. Is it possible that you do the same for saving throws (read values from a modified table, not vannila)?

Yes, I read pretty much everything - spell memorization levels, hit points (if externalised), THAC0, saving throws, (as of v25) kit features - off the game's .2da files rather than hardcoding them. That's as much for my convenience as anything else, but it does mean that SCS responds to other mods that change features of the ruleset.

This is grand :D . Where's the "worship" smiley when you need one....

[Demivrgvs]

Also, not a bug, but a question about SCS - my guess is that it reads from .2da THAC0 table in determining creatures' THAC0 scores, however it may be modified. Is it possible that you do the same for saving throws (read values from a modified table, not vannila)?

Yes, I read pretty much everything - spell memorization levels, hit points (if externalised), THAC0, saving throws, (as of v25) kit features - off the game's .2da files rather than hardcoding them. That's as much for my convenience as anything else, but it does mean that SCS responds to other mods that change features of the ruleset.

Wait a second...does this mean that if KR alters thac0 and saves tables installing SCS after it will update enemies according to it (e.g. rogues getting great reflex based saves instead of awful ones) and that as of v25 SCS enemies also automatically get new kit features added by KR (e.g. Berserker's Diehard feature)? We do planned KR to handle it but if SCS already does that it's fantastic (especially for the current heavy beta testing). I always strived to make sure AI gets as much as possible out of KR even without updates, but some things simply cannot be done with those strict limits.

 

I want the worship smile too!

[kreso]

Werevolves in Ulgoth's Beard apperantly don't drop more than 1 Ring of Free action, but one of them (the "sidekick" one) spawns in several copies, all in the same place.

Will chase.

The creature's name is Baresh. He spawns 3 times.

EDIT:

2 times when I use CLUA to set Globals and create BARESH2.cre.

[DrAzTiK]

Yes, 24. For example those before Sarevok (underground city) and Durlag's Tower....this only happens with those worth few thousand exp, not regular (64 XP points) skeletons. I didn't notice they drink healing, but do drop them and do use for example, Magic Resistance and similar.

Skeletons drop potions because of random treasures. ( whose really need to be tweaked/balanced Imo)

[DavidW]

Also, not a bug, but a question about SCS - my guess is that it reads from .2da THAC0 table in determining creatures' THAC0 scores, however it may be modified. Is it possible that you do the same for saving throws (read values from a modified table, not vannila)?

Yes, I read pretty much everything - spell memorization levels, hit points (if externalised), THAC0, saving throws, (as of v25) kit features - off the game's .2da files rather than hardcoding them. That's as much for my convenience as anything else, but it does mean that SCS responds to other mods that change features of the ruleset.

Wait a second...does this mean that if KR alters thac0 and saves tables installing SCS after it will update enemies according to it (e.g. rogues getting great reflex based saves instead of awful ones) and that as of v25 SCS enemies also automatically get new kit features added by KR (e.g. Berserker's Diehard feature)? We do planned KR to handle it but if SCS already does that it's fantastic (especially for the current heavy beta testing). I always strived to make sure AI gets as much as possible out of KR even without updates, but some things simply cannot be done with those strict limits.

Kit features: yes. (But of course active powers, as opposed to passive abilities, need scripting to work.)

Saving throws etc: the caveat is that SCS corrects too-poor saves but not too-good saves. That's because sometimes the game deliberately uses an illegal saving throw to make a creature more powerful, and I don't want to break it.

[Salk]

Saving throws etc: the caveat is that SCS corrects too-poor saves but not too-good saves. That's because sometimes the game deliberately uses an illegal saving throw to make a creature more powerful, and I don't want to break it.

 

But how do we know that the game is not conversely using an illegal saving throw to deliberately make a creature less powerful?

[DavidW]

Saving throws etc: the caveat is that SCS corrects too-poor saves but not too-good saves. That's because sometimes the game deliberately uses an illegal saving throw to make a creature more powerful, and I don't want to break it.

 

But how do we know that the game is not conversely using an illegal saving throw to deliberately make a creature less powerful?

We don't know, but I don't believe it's especially common (find me a clear case study and I'll reconsider), whereas the converse happens all the time. (And ultimately an AI/tactical mod is going to err on the side of not decreasing difficulty).