BG1 - Puny NPCs with Bad Ass Backstories

[Thimblerig]

Edwin is a blowhard.

 

Viconia switched deities and isn't yet used to the sun. Dynaheir, Branwen, and Xan were all imprisoned or stone for some time, which could easily have damaged their health and abilities. Minsc got hit on the head. Montaron and Xzar seem like minor functionaries anyway.

 

And then there are Jaheira and Khalid.

 

According to Gorion, and themselves, they've been elite Harper agents for years - and when you meet them they're probably only Level 2.

 

What happened - a kinky tryst with a vampire?

 

Was Gorion being kind? Maybe they're the half-elven equivalent of teenagers... which would explain some of Jaheira's bluster, actually. Were they the best that he could do for backup? Come to think of it - if the Harper factional disputes of BG2 were already happening, he might have picked low-level agents that he could trust. Did I just answer my own question?

 

Anyway - thoughts?

[Kulyok]

I'm not sure, besides the obvious "game mechanics trumps realism". But given how Gorion's Magic Missiles only have three or four actual missiles, he doesn't seem to be exactly Level 25, either. And even legendary heroes like Cattie-Bree and Regis, according to the wiki, were only level 7.

[Thimblerig]

Well, yeah, but it's fun to find weird story reasons for in-game oddities. Regis was only level 7? Tut.

[Grunker]

Level 1 in AD&D is "competent, experienced adventurer", basically. Level 2 means that Khalid and Jaheira are exactly what Gorian labels them as

[Haplo]

wait a sec...... Regis and Cattie-Brie are level 7? Regis a.k.a Rumblebelly I could understand...... but Cattie-Brie??? You telling me that Cattie-Brie, has the same level as Imoen at the beginning of BG2?? when your Thac0 is around 20?? that makes no sense at all.... when she's killing ogres by the thousands with her bow, and that to say the least... (don't let me talk of her time in Menzoberranzan or the Underdark....).

 

one thing about Gorion tho, if he's such skilled magician, and such a good friend of Elminster himself.... he should be close to Irenicus I would say... Instead, he kills 2 lackies and die at the hands of Sarevok... rather easily..... bueh.....

[Jarno Mikkola]

one thing about Gorion tho, if he's such skilled magician, and such a good friend of Elminster himself.... he should be close to Irenicus I would say... Instead, he kills 2 lackies and die at the hands of Sarevok... rather easily..... bueh.....

Erhm Gorion, he is a sage, not a pure mage, the difference is that while he might be old and wrinkled, he also knows more than the magical arts and thus his skills at magic might be that of the level 7, alike the mage class protagonist at the end of the BG1, but he also has the ability to have trained any of the other classed characters to level 1, and while you think on the fact, there is hardly much of a spell library in the Candlekeep either, so for example there is no Fireball scrolls ... and he has been in the place the last 20 years... making his spell library less of a great... tactically he made the right move too actually... one of the ogres could have killed him had he stayed to face them instead of killing or disabling the greatest number of foes to protect you the protagonist. Ouh, and he has no magical items either. So try the same fight with your mage, and we'll see...

 

 

Was Gorion being kind? Maybe they're the half-elven equivalent of teenagers... which would explain some of Jaheira's bluster, actually. Were they the best that he could do for backup? Come to think of it - if the Harper factional disputes of BG2 were already happening, he might have picked low-level agents that he could trust.

Likely yeah... after all he said, "Khalid and Jaheira have long been my friends"....

[Haplo]

Sage?? I always thought him a kind of kick-ass mage of some sort..... then, either Firekraag was liying in BG2 or.... what bussines has a sage who isn't all that powerfull a mage, to go with some harpers and try to fight a powerfull red dragon (thus me thinking him a great old wizard), when he can only fire a few magic missiles and a few illusions??

[Jarno Mikkola]

I always thought him a kind of kick-ass mage of some sort..... then, either Firekraag was liying in BG2 or.... what bussines has a sage who isn't all that powerfull a mage, to go with some harpers and try to fight a powerfull red dragon (thus me thinking him a great old wizard), when he can only fire a few magic missiles and a few illusions??

Well you were wrong, just admit it, you don't have to fight so hard against the inevitable.

But let's see, as a mage, Gorion could have casted Protection from Fire to a bunch of people... and he wasn't working alone, remember ! And the dragon did not die... making Gorion and his team lesser than that of a one that can take a Red Dragon down.

And yes, I have defeated the "Green dragon" in one of the BGT mods with an avarage party of level 7 or less... Got you. Of course it was with +2 weapons etc. and the green dragon is far lesser of a treat than any red one, but still...

[Thimblerig]

and he has been in the place the last 20 years... making his spell library less of a great... tactically he made the right move too actually... one of the ogres could have killed him had he stayed to face them instead of killing or disabling the greatest number of foes to protect you the protagonist. Ouh, and he has no magical items either. So try the same fight with your mage, and we'll see...

 

Point. Also, mage fights go a lot easier if you have meat-shields in front to soak up the melee, and if your mage gets their spell off before someone hits them and disrupts the casting. With no meat-shield but his ward, and the limited amount of time that experienced fighters like Sarevok and Friends would have given him, the very-quick Magic Missile starts looking more reasonable.

[Haplo]

Ok..... I admit it.... you got me there

 

Truth is, I never liked Gorion much, don't ask me why, is just one of those characters that for some reason I would skip entirely.

 

never played BGT, but I did try to fight Firekraag at level 10 or something (can't remember, quite early tho), and got cut to shreds a hundred times......

[Thimblerig]

(I hate fighting dragons. Even if I can kill it, it kinda feels like killing a unicorn - a big scaly unicorn that could squish me with its paw.)

 

Oh, I had another thought.

 

what bussines has a sage who isn't all that powerfull a mage, to go with some harpers and try to fight a powerfull red dragon

 

Some characters are worth more for their ability to co-ordinate a group than their straight combat ability. For example, in the American show Leverage, Nathan Ford lacked the extreme specialties of his team, but it would not have been effective, or have existed, without him - he planned, he co-ordinated, he inspired, his specialtiy was leadership. So maybe Gorion is DnD's Nathan Ford.

[Haplo]

That makes me like him even less..... In a D&D world, the leader, the guy who inspires everyone is most often the first to enter the battle and one of the braviest, I could name hundred, but... let's just say King Bruenor.... and if you want to tell me, "wait a sec, he's a KING" well, then I would name one of his fiercest followers, Thibbledorf Pwent (Notorious leader of the Gutsbusters and a Tank if there's any).

 

And so on..... but yeah, also point taken, Gorion could be a mastermind strategist with just enough skill as a magician to belong to such a group... why not.

[Thimblerig]

That makes me like him even less..... In a D&D world, the leader, the guy who inspires everyone is most often the first to enter the battle and one of the braviest,

 

Fair enough - it is a D and D setting, after all. (I have a fondness for puny tacticians myself, but I know that isn't everybody.) :-)