IR v4 Beta (last update 20 June 2017)

[Mike1072]

A minor nit: the tp2 file is named item_rev.tp2 where the convention seems to suggest setup-item_rev.tp2

 

As per the WeiDU readme, it doesn't matter if you name your .tp2 "modname.tp2" or "setup-modname.tp2".

 

I prefer it without the "setup-" prefix because it's unnecessary.

[Blackmaff]

Here's some feedback and bug report.
(I'm not good at English. So please be good to understand my awkward English)


In case of BG2:EE, 'Remove Cleric Weapon Restrictions from Multi-Classed Clerics' is not working on Dual-Classed characters. (I has checked it works correctly on original BG2)

Belt of Inertial Barrier (BELT10B.spl): Duration of Attack speed factor penalty is set to 0


Blackguard cannot use Ravager and Ring of Kangaxx. I think that's not make sense. So I suggest to change their restrictions: Paladin -> Lawful Good

 

 

 

Thanks for modding!

Edited December 8, 2015 by Blackmaff

[Demivrgvs]

In case of BG2:EE, 'Remove Cleric Weapon Restrictions from Multi-Classed Clerics' is not working on Dual-Classed characters. (I has checked it works correctly on original BG2)

I'll ask Mike and Arda if they can check it.

 

Belt of Inertial Barrier (BELT10B.spl): Duration of Attack speed factor penalty is set to 0

Fixed thanks.

 

Blackguard cannot use Ravager and Ring of Kangaxx. I think that's not make sense. So I suggest to change their restrictions: Paladin -> Lawful Good

I think it's a sensible workaround.

[Elaugaufein]

I'm not sure how useful I'd be for beta-testing since I'm also messing around with various BWS things, but I'd like to go on the beta list if possible.

[khelban12]

Hello.

 

I have some minor feedback about some items:

 

a) Armor "Skin of the Forest +3" (item leat14. i think it replaces the "The Night's Gift" that you get from the umar hills mayor) has a base AC of 5 but grants Barkskin so it gives an AC of 1. Does anyone else think the -4AC benefit of barkskin is too much ?

 

This is the same AC as "Mithral Chain Mail +4", "Bladesinger Chain +4", "Shadow Dragonhide +5" and others that require more trouble to be acquired. With the components that give heavier armors dexterity, movement, thieving penalties installed then the difference is even greater and it outclasses (at least from an AC point) a lot armors. For example, due to the dexterity penalties, a character with 18DEX has -3AC wearing it and also has -3AC wearing the "Deep Guardian's Plate" (base AC of -1) and has -4AC with "Enkidu's Plate" (base AC of -3)

 

b) The enchantment level of Acid/Fire/Ice arrows are changed from vanilla 0 to 2/1/1 respectively. This is very nice but do you think it would be better if Fire/Ice arrows were also changed to +2 enchantment or they would be overpowered ?

 

Last time i played an archer and found a Fire Elemental, i thought the most logical ammunition to use is an Ice Arrow but i couldn't hurt it because it was immune to weapons of less than 2 enchantment. Wouldn't it be logical to be able to use these Fire/Ice arrows on enemies of the opposite element ?

 

c) Why are Arrows of Piercing changed to 3 enchantment and not 4 ?

 

I do not have anything against this. It is a great change because it solves the problem with long bows and enchantment 3 is enough for pretty much any enemy. I just ask out of curiosity because the original description mentioned +4 to THAC0 so an enchantment of 4 would be the obvious choice.

 

Thank you for your time.

[kreso]

This is the same AC as "Mithral Chain Mail +4", "Bladesinger Chain +4", "Shadow Dragonhide +5" and others that require more trouble to be acquired. With the components that give heavier armors dexterity, movement, thieving penalties installed then the difference is even greater and it outclasses (at least from an AC point) a lot armors. For example, due to the dexterity penalties, a character with 18DEX has -3AC wearing it and also has -3AC wearing the "Deep Guardian's Plate" (base AC of -1) and has -4AC with "Enkidu's Plate" (base AC of -3)

If a character (say someone like Korgan) doesn't have 18 DEX to begin with, he's better of wearing plate if allowed. If you need ranged THAC0 and similar, you're better of with leather.

I wouldn't really compare benefits of Enkidu/Bladesinger with Skin of the Forest. While Skin has great AC, that's all there is to it - in many cases, you'll want extra saves, immunities, resistances - SotF has none of these. AC1 isn't why you want Bladesinger on your fighter/mage - it's that precious -1 to casting time. Likewise, SotF only adds 5% to physical resistance; making it a poor choice for late-game.

 

 

b) The enchantment level of Acid/Fire/Ice arrows are changed from vanilla 0 to 2/1/1 respectively. This is very nice but do you think it would be better if Fire/Ice arrows were also changed to +2 enchantment or they would be overpowered ?

Why would they be OP?

[Demivrgvs]

Skin of the Forest

a) Armor "Skin of the Forest +3" (item leat14. i think it replaces the "The Night's Gift" that you get from the umar hills mayor) has a base AC of 5 but grants Barkskin so it gives an AC of 1. Does anyone else think the -4AC benefit of barkskin is too much ?

This is the same AC as "Mithral Chain Mail +4", "Bladesinger Chain +4", "Shadow Dragonhide +5" and others that require more trouble to be acquired. With the components that give heavier armors dexterity, movement, thieving penalties installed then the difference is even greater and it outclasses (at least from an AC point) a lot armors. For example, due to the dexterity penalties, a character with 18DEX has -3AC wearing it and also has -3AC wearing the "Deep Guardian's Plate" (base AC of -1) and has -4AC with "Enkidu's Plate" (base AC of -3)

This is a bit long to explain but I'll try.

SotF's base AC value is its only good feature, it has no other special feature. It is extremely good for high DEX characters yes but not so much for low DEX ones. For example a character with 15 DEX would have better AC using Deep Guardian's Plate. You need to consider those medium/heavy armors you mention also grant 10-20% physical dmg reduction instead of just 5% and they have additional special abilities (e.g. Shadow Dragonhide's immunity to level drain). It's less noticeable but also note that in most cases those armors have better AC modifiers vs all weapon types (except vs. blunt), and if you wish, you can cast Barkskin to further improve those armors AC.

Right now this is a really really good light armor, but if I lower SotF to AC 2 or 3 and suddenly there would be absolutely no reason to keep it for more than 5 minutes imo.

 

Special Arrows

b) The enchantment level of Acid/Fire/Ice arrows are changed from vanilla 0 to 2/1/1 respectively. This is very nice but do you think it would be better if Fire/Ice arrows were also changed to +2 enchantment or they would be overpowered ?

Last time i played an archer and found a Fire Elemental, i thought the most logical ammunition to use is an Ice Arrow but i couldn't hurt it because it was immune to weapons of less than 2 enchantment. Wouldn't it be logical to be able to use these Fire/Ice arrows on enemies of the opposite element ?

Fire/Ice arrows were more common and lessexpensive even in vanilla, I just built upon it.

 

I'm sympathetic to the whole "can't hit a fire elemental with an Ice Arrow" complain, but that's an issue of the game combat system (aka AD&D rules), not IR's fault. I never liked the "immune to +x enchantment lvl" thing, and that's probably something I would have handled within Creature Revisions if only I ever had the time for it.

 

On a side note...few players suggested to differentiate elemental ammos a bit more (e.g. Ice could do less dmg but slow target) and I'm tempted to go for it.

 

c) Why are Arrows of Piercing changed to 3 enchantment and not 4 ?

I do not have anything against this. It is a great change because it solves the problem with long bows and enchantment 3 is enough for pretty much any enemy. I just ask out of curiosity because the original description mentioned +4 to THAC0 so an enchantment of 4 would be the obvious choice.

With +3 you can hit any creature in the game (except 2 demi-liches and 1 boss). I just thought +4 should be "epic stuff" not your barely rare arrow type.

 

Btw, as you noticed +x thac0 doesn't necessarily mean +x enchantment (e.g. vanilla's Arrow of Piercing has just +1 enchantment lvl). Within IR it's almost always the same, but not always (e.g. Bane weapons or weapons with additional accuracy bonuses such as all xbows).

[subtledoctor]

Last time i played an archer and found a Fire Elemental, i thought the most logical ammunition to use is an Ice Arrow but i couldn't hurt it because it was immune to weapons of less than 2 enchantment. Wouldn't it be logical to be able to use these Fire/Ice arrows on enemies of the opposite element ?

Just FYI, I'm pretty sure the "IWO" component of my mod (might & guile) makes that work, it's designed be installed on top of IR.

[geg_Ma3gau]

Hello.

 

I have some minor feedback about some items:

 

a) Armor "Skin of the Forest +3" (item leat14. i think it replaces the "The Night's Gift" that you get from the umar hills mayor) has a base AC of 5 but grants Barkskin so it gives an AC of 1. Does anyone else think the -4AC benefit of barkskin is too much ?

 

This is the same AC as "Mithral Chain Mail +4", "Bladesinger Chain +4", "Shadow Dragonhide +5" and others that require more trouble to be acquired. With the components that give heavier armors dexterity, movement, thieving penalties installed then the difference is even greater and it outclasses (at least from an AC point) a lot armors. For example, due to the dexterity penalties, a character with 18DEX has -3AC wearing it and also has -3AC wearing the "Deep Guardian's Plate" (base AC of -1) and has -4AC with "Enkidu's Plate" (base AC of -3)

 

b) The enchantment level of Acid/Fire/Ice arrows are changed from vanilla 0 to 2/1/1 respectively. This is very nice but do you think it would be better if Fire/Ice arrows were also changed to +2 enchantment or they would be overpowered ?

 

Last time i played an archer and found a Fire Elemental, i thought the most logical ammunition to use is an Ice Arrow but i couldn't hurt it because it was immune to weapons of less than 2 enchantment. Wouldn't it be logical to be able to use these Fire/Ice arrows on enemies of the opposite element ?

 

c) Why are Arrows of Piercing changed to 3 enchantment and not 4 ?

 

I do not have anything against this. It is a great change because it solves the problem with long bows and enchantment 3 is enough for pretty much any enemy. I just ask out of curiosity because the original description mentioned +4 to THAC0 so an enchantment of 4 would be the obvious choice.

 

Thank you for your time.

Plate is much better once you can cast dex increasing spells like draw upon holy might (cleric/paladin). plate reduces dex to 16 from 18 (which light armor doesnt do)and then you nincrease it back up to 18 with duhm which gives you those 2 ac back on top of plate's high base ac. If you cast barkskin + DUHM on a plate user you re getting some ~-7 ac easily without much of equipment. And i personnaly dont use the movement reduction on armors fix. Armors are already restricted by class.

Edited December 21, 2015 by geg_Ma3gau

[khelban12]

If a character (say someone like Korgan) doesn't have 18 DEX to begin with, he's better of wearing plate if allowed. If you need ranged THAC0 and similar, you're better of with leather.

I wouldn't really compare benefits of Enkidu/Bladesinger with Skin of the Forest. While Skin has great AC, that's all there is to it - in many cases, you'll want extra saves, immunities, resistances - SotF has none of these. AC1 isn't why you want Bladesinger on your fighter/mage - it's that precious -1 to casting time. Likewise, SotF only adds 5% to physical resistance; making it a poor choice for late-game.

SotF's base AC value is its only good feature, it has no other special feature. It is extremely good for high DEX characters yes but not so much for low DEX ones. For example a character with 15 DEX would have better AC using Deep Guardian's Plate. You need to consider those medium/heavy armors you mention also grant 10-20% physical dmg reduction instead of just 5% and they have additional special abilities (e.g. Shadow Dragonhide's immunity to level drain). It's less noticeable but also note that in most cases those armors have better AC modifiers vs all weapon types (except vs. blunt), and if you wish, you can cast Barkskin to further improve those armors AC.

 

Right now this is a really really good light armor, but if I lower SotF to AC 2 or 3 and suddenly there would be absolutely no reason to keep it for more than 5 minutes imo.

Plate is much better once you can cast dex increasing spells like draw upon holy might (cleric/paladin). plate reduces dex to 16 from 18 (which light armor doesnt do)and then you nincrease it back up to 18 with duhm which gives you those 2 ac back on top of plate's high base ac. If you cast barkskin + DUHM on a plate user you re getting some ~-7 ac easily without much of equipment. And i personnaly dont use the movement reduction on armors fix. Armors are already restricted by class.

I guess i oversimplified the matter and didn't see all parameters. Almost all my playthroughs are solo (so i can't cast barkskin or other spells on top of the heavy armors) and my last playthroughs were as an Archer and Assassin with high dex, so i guess i judged the armors based on these characters and that is why i couldn't find any reason to justify the disadvantages of the heavier armors. I missed the bigger picture of the physical resistance and other benefits of the other armors. Thank you for your insight. I understand it now.

 

Why would they be OP?

I thought that since IR gives projectiles bonus damage based on their enchantment like BG1 did, maybe some gamers would dislike the extra +1 damage.

 

Special Arrows

I'm sympathetic to the whole "can't hit a fire elemental with an Ice Arrow" complain, but that's an issue of the game combat system (aka AD&D rules), not IR's fault. I never liked the "immune to +x enchantment lvl" thing, and that's probably something I would have handled within Creature Revisions if only I ever had the time for it.

 

On a side note...few players suggested to differentiate elemental ammos a bit more (e.g. Ice could do less dmg but slow target) and I'm tempted to go for it.

Maybe this differentiation in arrows is better than what i suggested. I have faith in you choosing the best possible change as you did for other items.

 

With +3 you can hit any creature in the game (except 2 demi-liches and 1 boss). I just thought +4 should be "epic stuff" not your barely rare arrow type.

Yeah, +3 is perfect as i said before. I was just curious about it.

 

 

Just FYI, I'm pretty sure the "IWO" component of my mod (might & guile) makes that work, it's designed be installed on top of IR.

Thank you for mentioning this. I follow your threads at the beamdog forum from the original scales of balance thread and agree with many of your changes. I haven't tried the mods yet though.

 

Thank you all for your replies.

[Salk]

In the item_rev\components folder we have:

 

critical_hits.tpa

 

and

 

critical_hits.tpa.tpa

 

It'd be nice to make sure that the mod is using the right one.

[Salk]

Demi,

 

I'd like to make my own Cursed Items compatible with IR and in order to do so the only way I can think of is to overwrite the IR changes made on cursed items.

 

I have a problem understanding what you did with plat16.itm and plat17.itm.

 

In the non modded BG2 game, plat16.itm is Armor of the Hart +3 and plat17.itm is the cursed T'rachie's Plate +5.

 

IR changes that by making plat17.itm Armor of the Hart and plat16.itm the new Casiel's Soul +3, a cursed armor.

 

DEATH_KNIGHT_ARMOR_3                       plat16   1        1        0        0        @1497    @1848    @1499    @1849    *        *        *        *           //extra_content
ARMOR_OF_THE_HART_4                        plat17   1        1        0        0        @1497    @1850    @1499    @1851    *        *        *        cursed

Also, on the contrary of what it's specified above, the curse flag is set for plat16 and not plat17.

 

Was that necessary?

Edited December 21, 2015 by Salk

[Mike1072]

In the item_rev\components folder we have:

 

critical_hits.tpa

 

and

 

critical_hits.tpa.tpa

 

It'd be nice to make sure that the mod is using the right one.

Don't worry about it. I deleted the wrong one long ago. Demi must have still had it hanging around his folder when he packaged the beta.

[Demivrgvs]

In the non modded BG2 game, plat16.itm is Armor of the Hart +3 and plat17.itm is the cursed T'rachie's Plate +5.

 

IR changes that by making plat17.itm Armor of the Hart and plat16.itm the new Casiel's Soul +3, a cursed armor.

Casiel's Soul will not have the 'cursed' flag anymore for technical reasons. If you use Break Enchantment you can remove the armor from the Death Knight. If you're using the armor and cast BE on the wearer (to cure confusion for example) you also end up without armor and cannot re-quip it during the fight.

 

The switch between the two armors was done long before IR started moving items around. Just think as if plat17.itm is not cursed when IR is installed.

 

P.S the critical_hits.tpa.tpa file isn't in my dropbox folder. I probably fixed it some time after uploading the build. No big deeal though, it doesn't cause any issue.

[roooriii]

Can I join the beta plz?

Wanna test it on a new EET installation.