SR V4 Open Beta (last update 25 October 2018)

[Serg BlackStrider]

Because having to learn&memorize that spell makes little sense considering you can only cast it once (for the entire game)....

...

...(there's no point writing the spell on your spellbook, just cast it via scroll and you're fine).

I have no personal experience but aren't you able to cast this spell again if/when your first Familiar dies?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Yes, and the only thing that the -1 Con penalty to the char whose Imp dies can very well be restored with a lesser or normal version of the (restoration)spell.

[Demivrgvs]

Find Familiar

Because having to learn&memorize that spell makes little sense considering you can only cast it once (for the entire game)....

...

...(there's no point writing the spell on your spellbook, just cast it via scroll and you're fine).

I have no personal experience but aren't you able to cast this spell again if/when your first Familiar dies?

Yes, and no. You get a permanent -1 CON penalty if your familiar dies. Everyone and their mother would re-load there imo.

 

Yes, and the only thing that the -1 Con penalty to the char whose Imp dies can very well be restored with a lesser or normal version of the (restoration)spell.

In your dreams. Unless you are suggesting that as a tweak.

[Serg BlackStrider]

Find Familiar

Because having to learn&memorize that spell makes little sense considering you can only cast it once (for the entire game)....

...

...(there's no point writing the spell on your spellbook, just cast it via scroll and you're fine).

I have no personal experience but aren't you able to cast this spell again if/when your first Familiar dies?

Yes, and no. You get a permanent -1 CON penalty if your familiar dies. Everyone and their mother would re-load there imo.

Unless you are on the no-reload run...

[Jarno Mikkola]

In your dreams. Unless you are suggesting that as a tweak.

I am talking about the original games spell in BG2, and the penalty sets the score to red, which means it can be easily restored, if you just go and look at it. Edited September 28, 2016 by Jarno Mikkola

[Demivrgvs]

In your dreams. Unless you are suggesting that as a tweak.

I am talking about the original games spell in BG2, and the penalty sets the score to red, which means it can be easily restored.

Afaik, no.

[Valandil]

Hi everyone, I've figured out in my new party this morning that my characters have KR Saving Throw. I've only made two updates in my game configuration which are IRv4b9 and SRv4b13.

 

Well I didn't notice that point in the readme files but am I correct or is it an error? just for the record I don't mind coz I like that way but I just wanted to report that point and confirm if it's normal. Besides I'm not sure that this point comes from these mods.

[kreso]

It's intended. It makes little sense that a class depending on dexterity like thieves have worse saves vs breath; or that they start with overall best saves which end up being the worst.

[Demivrgvs]

I added KR's revised saves to SR a few builds ago. As Kreso says, it is a necessary tweak even without KR because SR's saving throws system doesn't really go well with vanilla's one where save vs spell covers 99% of things.

 

On a side note, b14 is closer thank you might think but in the meanwhile a quick fix for anyone wanting to use b13's Icelance: put this file into your override (no need to re-install) to fix a mistake I made on its projectile animation.

[Valandil]

It's intended. It makes little sense that a class depending on dexterity like thieves have worse saves vs breath; or that they start with overall best saves which end up being the worst.

 

Fully agree with you but I didn't know that they had been implemented in SR. The day KR would have an official release, IR/SR/KR will rule .

 

 

I added KR's revised saves to SR a few builds ago. As Kreso says, it is a necessary tweak even without KR because SR's saving throws system doesn't really go well with vanilla's one where save vs spell covers 99% of things.

 

On a side note, b14 is closer thank you might think but in the meanwhile a quick fix for anyone wanting to use b13's Icelance: put this file into your override (no need to re-install) to fix a mistake I made on its projectile animation.

 

That makes sense and I prefer those ones, so everything's fine . BTW thank you for the Iceland fix. There won't be a problem as I've installed Generalized Biffing?

Edited October 5, 2016 by Valandil

[Meaningless]

Hi!

Seems that Spell Revisions interacts well with EET and EEs in general, I assume the installer checks what can and cannot be installed (Devas model) and that EEs already contain "convenience fixes" for mirror image/dispel magic/cure sleep.

Also, I've been told by a certain someone who wont be named but lets say he is AN IMP , that SR "sort of" does a revision for saves removing polymorph and wands?

Maybe you guys would be interested in converting the savings throws to a Fortitude/Reflex/Will model: https://s16.postimg.org/mqn8wcu11/Sem_T_tulo_1.jpg

Thankfully half of the saves in the game (probably much more?) already do it 'natively' since death/paralysis/poison->fortitude , breath->reflex and spell->will are very intuitive, so only cases that check an inappropriate save or for the excluded ones (wands/polymorph) need to be altered, writing a weidu code that checks/changes every item/spell/creature/eff to adjust for a new savings scheme and tables/nomeclature is a bit daunting, but IMHO it would be a must have mod, the savings throws from 2nd edition are a bit of a mess.

 

Finally, thanks for a fine mod!

Edited October 8, 2016 by Meaningless

[Demivrgvs]

Hi!

 

Wait a sec, deva/planetar models doesn't work on EE?

 

I've been told by a certain someone who wont be named but lets say he is AN IMP , that SR "sort of" does a revision for saves removing polymorph and wands?

We found no use for saves vs. wands but we used polymorph saves for a few effects such as slow, polymorph and petrification.

 

Maybe you guys would be interested in converting the savings throws to a Fortitude/Reflex/Will model: https://s16.postimg.org/mqn8wcu11/Sem_T_tulo_1.jpg

I'm not sure if you are asking to merge an already existing tweak into SR or if you are suggesting that we should code that tweak...

Thankfully half of the saves in the game (probably much more?) already do it 'natively' since death/paralysis/poison->fortitude , breath->reflex and spell->will are very intuitive, so only cases that check an inappropriate save or for the excluded ones (wands/polymorph) need to be altered...

Actually the game almost never do that "natively". Saves vs. spell cover something like 90% of spell effects while other saves are very rarely used (e.g. Fireball doesn't use save vs. breath without SR). Save vs. death is used a bit more consistently but it doesn't cover all 'fortitude' saves.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I've been told by a certain someone who wont be named but lets say he is AN IMP , that SR "sort of" does a revision for saves removing polymorph and wands?

I didn't exactly say that... I said that they(well, the Spell Revision mod) modified the use of the saves and to be more spread around. At least I think I did. But then again I am the insane one.

 

I'm not sure if you are asking to merge an already existing tweak into SR or if you are suggesting that we should code that tweak...

Well it's not coded into the game, but the thought is that to change the save names to be Fortitude/Reflex/Will ... the fact that the SR overwrites the spells and their descriptions would work well in conjunction of renaming the saves to be that of the different editions. As editing the spell descriptions alone does nothing, and then editing the games value names also has no real benefit without their use in the spells themselves. Edited October 8, 2016 by Jarno Mikkola

[Meaningless]

Wait a sec, deva/planetar models doesn't work on EE?

I assume it does? Never having tried the mod, what I meant is that it probably checks what game (vanilla/EE) it is and parts that would not work are already excluded from install options (Devas or the .exe fixes are candidates that come to mind).

 

For the saves, its pretty much as Jarno says, more like a plead/request from my part, maybe you guys would be interested in "doing a full conversion" to a Fort/Reflex/Will, altough it encompasses more than just the spells since items/eff/cre (dunno what else) would need adjusting as well, nevermind compatibility with other mods.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Meaningless

[subtledoctor]

I have a component called "saving throw overhaul" that treads much of the same ground as the SR save differences. It wouldn't be hard to turn it into a complete overhaul, the basics of the code is there. I'd be happy to contribute code and/or combine efforts, if the SR guys wanted to spin the saving throw stuff out as a separate component. But there are several problems I've run across:

 

1) Patching spells descriptions (generally by means of REPLACE_TEXTUALLY) in a way that allows for easy localization is a big PITA.

 

2) It's hard to catch every spell. My mod doesn't catch every AI-only spell, nor does it catch mod-added spells (aside from SR. From a coding perspective, it would be great to figure out a way to arrive at a system that uses effect matching to assign saves - like, every Charm effect uses a save vs. Will, every Fire Damage and Wing Buffet effect uses a save vs. Dodge, etc. But, as I think about it, that's probably not possible.

 

So if a static list is necessary, the array in my mod could be the starting point:

 

https://github.com/subtledoctor/Scales_of_Balance/blob/master/scales_of_balance/spells/save_list_base.tpa

 

Changing which spell uses which save is a simple matter of editing that .tpa file, and changing their names to Will/Fortitude/Reflex etc. is doable as well. If people are aware of any SPIN and SPCL spells that should be added, feel free to mention them. (This probably deserves a new thread, though.)