BGEE Kits

[Sergio]

ARe you going to revision also the blackguard? ;D

[Demivrgvs]

Blackguard

Are you going to revision also the blackguard? ;D

Yes, but later rather than sooner because BGEE kits are on the bottom of my to-do list. Sorry.

[yarpen]

On the other hand they are so terrible that something needs to be done with them. :S

[Sergio]

well, thanks for considering it, at least. Right now the kit seems a strange mix between a cavalier and an undead hunter...

[Sergio]

[unrelated]I'm also curious if you'll be touching the dragon disciple

[Demivrgvs]

[unrelated]I'm also curious if you'll be touching the dragon disciple

The only kit I like less than DD is another DD, the Dwarven Defender. There's really NOTHING this kit has to offer conceptually imo (a dwarven True Fighter focusing on defense is pretty much the same thing), and BGEE implementation is so brokenly OP that it made me laugh when reading its description.

 

That being said, I guess I will have no choice, sooner or later, but it's so low on my list that I don't expect to be working on it this year. The Blackguard has much more hope to get my attention because it actually has a reason to exist.

[Sergio]

Understood, thanks.

Another cute kit would be anti-paladin, but I guess adding it to bg doesn't make much sense..

[Grammarsalad]

 

[unrelated]I'm also curious if you'll be touching the dragon disciple

The only kit I like less than DD is another DD, the Dwarven Defender. There's really NOTHING this kit has to offer conceptually imo (a dwarven True Fighter focusing on defense is pretty much the same thing), and BGEE implementation is so brokenly OP that it made me laugh when reading its description.

 

That being said, I guess I will have no choice, sooner or later, but it's so low on my list that I don't expect to be working on it this year. The Blackguard has much more hope to get my attention because it actually has a reason to exist.

 

I suppose it is beyond KR to just replace these kits with something new, fun, and conceptually interesting?

[Demivrgvs]

I suppose it is beyond KR to just replace these kits with something new, fun, and conceptually interesting?

Yeah, I fear it's beyond the scope of a "Revision" mod. I already find difficult to replace a spell within SR, replacing a Kit is really too much imo. I had a similar philosophical concern with vanilla's Undead Hunter and couldn't convince myself replacing it with a Holy Hunter.

 

Btw, while I see little hope for the Dwarven Defender, at least the Dragon Disciple has a unique concept, albeit an almost impossible one to properly implement imo.

 

Otoh, I already have almost fully in mind how to handle monk's kits (e.g. simply replace the various ki powers with appropriate sun/fire and shadow/cold abilities) and I see no problem handling the Blackguard (or Anti-paladin, they are the same thing). I'm not sure I like Shadowdancer's HIPS (it can be abused to ridiculous levels) but the class concept is cool and can be handled well.

 

On a side note...thieves getting a "magical kit" will surely make me wonder again if I should have followed the same route with the Wizard Slayer.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Btw, while I see little hope for the Dwarven Defender (DD1 for short).

What's so mythical about that kit that's not in every other class ?

The physical resistance is a feature of it, but if you would bend over the backwards and kiss the same feature away from the armors in the IR, you wouldn't have such a big problem with it now would you ?

Now then, you could revise the DD1 to have a large AC bonus instead of the resistance...

[Demivrgvs]

Dwarven Defender

What's so mythical about that kit that's not in every other class ?

 

The physical resistance is a feature of it, but if you would bend over the backwards and kiss the same feature away from the armors in the IR, you wouldn't have such a big problem with it now would you ?

Now then, you could revise the DD1 to have a large AC bonus instead of the resistance...

I can easily balance the DD, but the real "problem" is that it really has nothing unique to offer as a concept. How am I supposed to make this kit unique when all it offers conceptually is only a small part of what KR's True Fighter already offer (Defensive Stance).

 

Btw, the balance issue is there with or without IR's armors man, unless you find ok that vanilla's Hardiness is an HLA while this kit gets an Improved Hardiness as 1st lvl ability. Combined with dwarf already insanely good saves the stance's +2 to all saves make this kit pretty much always auto-save against any spell and take little damage from physical attacks.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Dwarven Defender

I can easily balance the DD, but the real "problem" is that it really has nothing unique to offer as a concept. How am I supposed to make this kit unique when all it offers conceptually is only a small part of what KR's True Fighter already offer (Defensive Stance).

Or you could just accept the fact that you think cloning an already existing idea is a bad one. Or you would need to rethink somethings and don't want to dwell onto there. This might actually tell you that the Defensive Stance as an idea is a bad one in the first place(I am not telling you that it is, or that it's not, but your perception is of importance).

 

And what comes to the rest of the post... you need to see that fact that the Dwarven Defender cannot stand on it's own against encounters with companions that can not do the exact samething it can ... while having a good offense as well.

The fact that the DD1 is just a tank makes it vulnerable when it's surrounded by hordes... it can probably tank them all yeah, but without support it won't survive endlessly.

PS, almost auto save and autosave is not the same thing... get the tank charmed once and it becomes a cheese grinder for the other side(as in, you have to throw some cheese to compensate).

And you cannot make a compensation for the save throws to the kit ? Like say you could have him with a +5 penalty vs one type save.

 

Speaking of the tanking, there was a lot of times in the BG1EE's arena campaign(The Black Pits) when it wasn't really an easy thing to do with a party of 6. There were like 10 orges coming at me and the spells I had could barely touch a few... so the ~7 that kept on fighting were really though thing to fight against at range. And you know when your defenseless mage gets surrounded by 3 ogres, he is dead.

[Ardanis]

I request the Grizzly Bear kit revision.

- Can wear helmets.

- Can speak Russian.

- Can use only alcohol containing potions.

- Remove the Enrage ability. Instead, if the bear hasn't drunk a potion for an hour, it falls into uncontrollable rage until it is given one.

- Can use Play Balalaika ability 1/day at the first level, and 1 additional time each 4 levels thereafter. The enemies within 30' radius must save vs spells or flee in horror. Deaf targets are immune to the horror effect and instead become confused for 1 turn.

- Can select unique HLA - Portable mini-ICBM. All targets in the area, friend and foe, must save vs breath or die instantly. Even if the save is made, they still take 20d20 fire damage and must save vs death or become poisoned for 1 day.

[Sergio]

am I the only one really really curious about how you are going to revision the blackguard?

[Grammarsalad]

am I the only one really really curious about how you are going to revision the blackguard?

Nope. I'm curious too