Proficiencies, PIPs and such

[kreso]

Would KR (or anything out there) address this issue in any way?

Yea, since WW no longer sets APR to 10, but doubles them (aka imphaste)

[subtledoctor]

That can be addressed. At one time I had *all* apr bonuses granted by proficiency; and gave +2 thac0 for each pip, up to +8 at GM; and severely nerfed the thac0 table (20th level warriors got thac0 of like 6). In that case using a different weapon would have quite severe consequences.

 

But it's unwieldy, and exceeding hard to balance with other aspects of the game, and almost impossible to apply correctly to enemy creatures. I suspect Demi would run screaming from such an idea...

 

(I settled on a compromise, with 20th level thac0 at 3, and +1 thac0 per pip, and 3 of the 4 apr bonuses being proficiency-based, the last one level-based)

[Ardanis]

It stands to reason that if you're strong as a bloody giant, got a +5 weapon of instakill, and have two dozens levels of general experience under the belt, then you really can't care less if you're proficient with what you swing. You just gonna kill it with a single blow regardless.

 

 

Now allow me to remind I once proposed to halve the natural thaco progression rate for all classes...

[kreso]

Now allow me to remind I once proposed to halve the natural thaco progression rate for all classes...

This would make BG1 battles very long without a fireball wand.

[Ardanis]

Melee *is* supposed to be parrying blows rather than mincing each other. Also the thaco loss would be only 4 at 8th level - not many opponents have armor that heavy, and those few who do imo deserve to be invulnerable. The real problem, of course, are invulnerable PCs, not enemies. Shield bash somewhat helps them to even the odds (3 average soldiers had bludgeoned my tank to death with that), and SCS gives enemies potions and proficiencies.

 

A poor man's option is to reduce thaco progression after 10th level. HPs stop growing as much, so why should thaco increase keep the same rate.

[kreso]

A poor man's option is to reduce thaco progression after 10th level. HPs stop growing as much, so why should thaco increase keep the same rate.

I had a similar idea once, that THAC0 is gained every level up until a certain point which differs for classes (mages stop gaining it at 9th, thieves 12th, warriors 15th).

I would limit progression up to base of 5 for warriors, but I somehow doubt that would make much difference - very few enemies have very good AC score.

[subtledoctor]

Btw, we've just discovered (courtesy of Kjeron) that the EE games actually allow opcode 233 to increment proficiencies - not just set them. Apparently this has been in the EE engine for over a year and nobody realized it...!

 

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/711782/#Comment_711782

 

It's in byte 3 of parameter2 of the opcode... reviewing the ToBEx docs now, I see that ToBEx also enabled this. I never knew!

 

Anyway I just thought people would be interested. Between this, and concentration checks and other goodies coming in the next patch, and various stuff that was added in IWDEE... who knows they just might tempt Demi yet.

[Fiann of the Silver Hand]

The problem with the EE's 233 is that Set can now lower a proficiency. Got a F/D with grandmastery in clubs, but you cast Shillelagh? Cool: now you have worse thac0, damage, and APR.

 

1 coin, 2 sides.

 

[edit] Why the hell is the forum making my grammatically correct double-spaces into a single space? Goddamn decline of civilization; that's what it is.

[Grammarsalad]

Yeah, and merely incrementing doesn't help the fighter proficiency alteration. I think the only way to do that is through scripting... Unless SoD makes a change, or adds an opcode

 

Edit: and grammatical correctness is overrated

[Fiann of the Silver Hand]

Unless SoD makes a change, or adds an opcode

I'm not holding my breath. Even when they had A64, there's still a ton of brilliantly useful ideas they didn't implement (but you can change weather via opcode... ). If they changed 233 for whatever reason, I wouldn't count on them spending any more time on it.