Unearthed Arcana presents Scales of Balance: a post-hac tweak pack

[Caedwyr]

That is very helpful.  Thank you. 

Another conceptual question.  Scales of Balance includes a IWD-Style Spell Evasion component.  Does this take into account/integrate with the Feat System & HLAs component from Might & Guile, is it something that can slot in alongside just fine, or is it something where I should choose one or another option?

[subtledoctor]

3 hours ago, Caedwyr said:

Scales of Balance includes a IWD-Style Spell Evasion component.  Does this take into account/integrate with the Feat System & HLAs component from Might & Guile

If I did it correctly, it will not be possible to install the SoB component if it detects the MnG feats system. SoB, like IWD, gives the ability to all thieves automatically, at level 7. If you install MnG then Evasion, like other class abilities, is not given automatically but rather can be chosen at your discretion.

If for some reason you have the ability to install both, do not install SoB over MnG. 

[Caedwyr]

Thanks again.

[sturmvogel]

Intrigued by YARAS and WPO, I adopted it for my mini-mega modded version of BG:EE, but now have a strange bug that is sort of halfway between vanilla and your revision. Forex Khalid has the Bows proficiency, but cannot equip a shortbow. It doesn't show in his inventory outlined in red as an inappropriate weapon, he just can't equip it. And even though I selected option 1 in the Tweaks Anthology's weapons proficiency to move morning stars into the mace category, it doesn't seem to have any effect. Jahira has proficiency in Club/Mace, but a mace in her inventory is outlined in red. Similarly like Khalid, she has the Bows proficiency, but cannot select a short bow in in her weapons slots. Nothing jumps out at me in my Weidu log, but it's entirely possible that I could have selected something that I really didn't want.

OTOH, FWT seems to be working because my dwarf paladin can equip a light crossbow even while using a shield.

 

WeiDU.log

[sturmvogel]

It's official, I'm an idiot. I forgot to switch the Ease of Use AI to prioritize ranged weapons, so the characters switched back to their melee weapons ASAP.

 

[sturmvogel]

Well, not entirely. There's something weird going on with maces. My created cleric with one point in mace/club can use one without penalty, but my created paladin with one  point in mace/club gets the +2 penalty for lacking a proficiency. And Jaheira with 2 points cannot use one at all. Looking at the weapons, they're categorized as mace/morningstar so I think that this must be some sort of interaction between the Tweaks Anthology's weapons proficiency option, where I chose option 1 to merge morning stars into maces, and the WPO as the characters' proficiencies show as mace/club, although I'm buggered if I can tell why my cleric is treated properly and my other two characters have their proficiencies denied. Although perhaps Jahiera's Druid restrictions are the reason why she was denied use entirely, but I tried to not to allow other mods to change them until I got to Faith & Powers, so I dunno.

 

[sturmvogel]

Went back in and deleted the option in the Tweaks Anthology, but no significant change. My Knight of Eternal Order doesn't have any proficiency in club/mace and gets the +2 penalty. Khalid does a have a point of proficiency and has an unexplained +1 penalty. My Sonnlinor does have a point of proficiency and has neither bonus or penalty. Jaheira has 2 points of proficiency, but is still banned from using it. Jahiera has the attributes of a Forest Druid, but has the class description of a vanilla druid, though I'm not sure if that's actually relevant.

[sturmvogel]

Almost forgot, Imoen can't use longbows, just short ones.

[Jarno Mikkola]

2 minutes ago, sturmvogel said:

Almost forgot, Imoen can't use longbows, just short ones.

And she is a thief, so that's as it's meant to be... what's her STR, it might be that she doesn't have it high enough to use a longbow... or something. Also the Stupefier says -1 to Thac0, and with a name like that, it's probably a negative of a negative. Try a +1 mace, aka blun05.itm

[subtledoctor]

1 hour ago, sturmvogel said:

My Knight of Eternal Order doesn't have any proficiency in club/mace and gets the +2 penalty

That seems to be correct...

1 hour ago, sturmvogel said:

Khalid does a have a point of proficiency and has an unexplained +1 penalty

Do you have Item Revisions installed?  In my game shields give you a thac0 penalty, and your Khalid appears to be using a shield.  Or, as Jarno says, the item you are testing with might have an inherent penalty?  I'm not sure, but best to do these tests with precisely the same item, like a plain-jane unenchanted mace, to control for such things.

1 hour ago, sturmvogel said:

My Sonnlinor does have a point of proficiency and has neither bonus or penalty.

This also seems correct...

1 hour ago, sturmvogel said:

Jaheira has 2 points of proficiency, but is still banned from using it.

Jaheira is a druid and thus cannot use steel weapons like maces.  Her specialization with that proficiency will allow her to use clubs quite effectively, though.  (I wrote a reply before explaining this but it is not showing up... weird.)  So anyway, this also seems correct.

1 hour ago, sturmvogel said:

Imoen can't use longbows, just short ones

This might be either due to her class (thief or mage/thief, I assume) or her STR score, or both.  So this too might be working as intended.

Proficiency is not usability!  Just because a druid becomes specialized in the use of all clubbing weapons, doesn't mean that they will pick up and use a steel spiked mace.  Just because someone knows how to use bows in general, does not mean they can suddenly use a bow that is too big for their arm strength or sneaky class style.  The WPO is meant to let you more easily be proficient with various weapons, not to let you use more weapons. 

[sturmvogel]

You were right, the apparent anomaly with Khalid was indeed the shield penalty from IR. I take your point about usability vs proficiency, but Imoen is still just a thief (early days yet!) and her 9 strength should allow her to use longbows, which have a requirement of 9 strength.

I was unaware of any limitation to wooden weapons for forest druids, there's no such mention in Grammarsalad's partially complete readme and nothing in about that her class description accessed from the record page, although that appears to be an incomplete update of the normal druid information. It just mentions non-metallic armor and shields. Which is why I'm puzzled that Jahiera can't wear the Ankheg armor in my game, but can use ordinary medium and small shields. What other weapons count as non-metallic? Obviously quarterstaff, sling, bow, crossbow, but what else?

 

[sturmvogel]

18 hours ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

And she is a thief, so that's as it's meant to be... what's her STR, it might be that she doesn't have it high enough to use a longbow... or something. Also the Stupefier says -1 to Thac0, and with a name like that, it's probably a negative of a negative. Try a +1 mace, aka blun05.itm

That was my first thought as well, but the WPO merges all bow types together, specifically to allow characters to use all types, subject to the various strength limitations. Her strength is 9 which should be fine for longbows that require a 6.

[Jarno Mikkola]

43 minutes ago, sturmvogel said:

Her strength is 9 which should be fine for longbows that require a 6.

Is this from the .itm via a file editor like Near Infinity, or from an in-game description ? Cause there could be a difference.

[sturmvogel]

In game. I do need to check the file to see if they match the description.

 

[subtledoctor]

52 minutes ago, sturmvogel said:

but the WPO merges all bow types together, specifically to allow characters to use all types, subject to the various strength limitations

No, it doesn’t.  The Proficiency Overhaul only allows some proficiencies to cover a wider field of weapon types; it does not change those weapon types or who can use them. 

Thieves have never been able to use long bows; druids have never been able to use maces or morning stars. Fighters cannot use the Holy Avenger even if they have proficiency with 2-handed swords. This is simply not changed by the mod(s).

Edited June 25, 2020 by subtledoctor