Unearthed Arcana presents Scales of Balance: a post-hac tweak pack

[subtledoctor]

5 hours ago, Quester said:

The description of the scimitar proficiency mentions katanas and other exotic swords, even though in this system those have their own proficiency.

Unflagging Determination is called just Determination in the character creation screen. Not that it matters, just a very minor inconsistency.

Precise Strike: the description needs a subject.

The various Parry skills all mention "base (missile) damage" instead of their own type of damage.

Thanks for this!

5 hours ago, Quester said:

The clubs/maces proficiency doesn't explicitly mention morningstars being included, but I'm guessing they are? Or are they included with flails? Not mentioned there either.

I don't mention them on purpose - it depends on your current game. Depending on what other mods you install before this (morning stars can be affected by Item Revisions and/or CDTweaks) morning stars could be with maces, or with flails. So my proficiencies just mention maces and flails, and whichever category you put them it, they will be there.

5 hours ago, Quester said:

Question about the Quickstride ability: should it be possible to choose this for those classes that already move faster by default (monk, barbarian...)?

Gosh, I don't remember off the top of my head. I think they get Quickstride, or at least access to Quickstride, instead of their natural speed boost. I think? That is certainly what happens if you install Quickstride on its own, in Might & Guile, before this. If you  don't install the standalone Quickstride... then maybe those classes just get their natural speed bonuses and cannot choose quickstride. Honestly it's been a few weeks  and I'm  buried in other stuff right now so I'm not sure. Easy enough to test, though.

5 hours ago, Quester said:

The selection of miscellaneous skills available for mages to choose from is very limited. I know that's intentional, and that this system isn't primarily for them, but even so I hope in the future there will be a couple more things in there to choose from.

Maybe...I've got thoughts of breaking that proficiency out into a different set of skills for different classes. Archers could use it to  learn different called shots, bards could learn different bard songs, etc. But mages... I feel like spells are their skills. When a thief studies a skill or a fighter studies a combat technique, a mage studies a new spell, right? Plus even setting that  aside, I haven't come up with a good set of skills or feats that mages could actually learn. The idea of metamagic just doesn't work that well in this engine.  What would mage skills even look like?

Once I thought about only giving mages access to one school of magic at level 1, and making them learn more over time. But, the spell exclusion mechanism is not really sophisticated enough to make that work well...

Anyway it's fairly easy enough to add stuff here if inspiration strikes. The structure of these dialogues is kind of open-ended, and they are controlled by a function that reads from a simple .2da table. So they are pretty extensible.

[Quester]

Okay, cool. And yeah, I know that spells are basically the skills for a mage class. Most metamagic feats are probably hard to implement in BG. I don't suppose any of those from your other mod's namesake source are feasible:

https://dndtools.net/feats/tome-and-blood-a-guidebook-to-wizards-and-sorcerers--51/ ?

Some other inspiration, maybe it could give you some ideas: https://realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/feat-form.pl

https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/3.5e_Magical_Feats

 

On a completely separate note, I had noticed in my previous install that I wasn't getting the effects of component 102: Functional Weapon Tweaks. Checking in Winthrop's store, spears still do 1d8, daggers still do 1d4, etc. This is with IRR's weapon component installed before SoB.

So, I did a test with much fewer mods and this is still the case, even though the SoB component has clearly been installed:

Spoiler

// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
~EET\EET.TP2~ #0 #0 // EET core (resource importation): V13.4
~ITEM_REV\ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #0 // Item Revisions by Demivrgvs: V4 Beta 10 (Revised V1.3.800)
~ITEM_REV\ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #1030 // Store Revisions: V4 Beta 10 (Revised V1.3.800)
~ITEM_REV\ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #10 // Revised Shield Bonuses: V4 Beta 10 (Revised V1.3.800)
~ITEM_REV\ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #17 // Weapon Changes: V4 Beta 10 (Revised V1.3.800)
~ITEM_REV\ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #1200 // Revised Critical Hit Aversion: V4 Beta 10 (Revised V1.3.800)
~TOMEANDBLOOD\TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #11 // Rebalanced Spell Schools: 0.9.40
~TOMEANDBLOOD\TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #40 // Revised Specialists: 0.9.40
~TOMEANDBLOOD\TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #66 // Innate Find Familiar: 0.9.40
~TOMEANDBLOOD\TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #67 // Choose-Your-Own Familiar: 0.9.40
~SCALES_OF_BALANCE\SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #100 // IWO - Yet Another Revised Armor System: v6.2
~SCALES_OF_BALANCE\SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #1012 // IWO - Aesthetic & Enchantment Tweaks -> Replace Enchanted Equipment with Mastercraft: v6.2
~SCALES_OF_BALANCE\SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #102 // IWO - Functional Weapon Tweaks: v6.2
~SCALES_OF_BALANCE\SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #109 // IWO - All Potions Usable by Any Class: v6.2
~SCALES_OF_BALANCE\SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #123 // WPO - Weapon Proficiency Overhaul -> NEW: Expanded Combat Skills System: v6.2
~SCALES_OF_BALANCE\SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #124 // WPO - Fighting Style Changes: v6.2
~SCALES_OF_BALANCE\SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #160 // STO - Saving Throw Overhaul: v6.2
~SCALES_OF_BALANCE\SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #200 // SBO - Stat Bonus Overhaul: v6.2
~SCALES_OF_BALANCE\SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #201 // SBO - Stat-based Bonus Spell Slots: v6.2
~SCALES_OF_BALANCE\SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #206 // SBO - Hit Dice Overhaul -> Generous (above-average) hit points: v6.2
~SCALES_OF_BALANCE\SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #210 // XPO - Slower, standardized XP Tables: v6.2
~EET_END\EET_END.TP2~ #0 #0 // EET end (last mod in install order) -> Standard installation
 

So, at least for me, Functional Weapon Tweaks are in fact non-functional.

Any idea what the problem could be?

Edited October 24, 2022 by Quester

[Endarire]

@Quester
[url=https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/76732/v2-2-0-olvynspells-151-new-spells-for-bg-ee-bg2-ee-iwd-ee-and-eet/p1]OlvynSpells[/url] for 2.5 includes metamagic feats.

 

[subtledoctor]

Yeah, that's doable - it kind of looks like Olvyn used my Revised Specialists spontaneous casting as a model for it - but it seems pretty clunky in practice. And it needs the Windows-only engine hack to do the thing where it uses spell slots of different  levels. (How does that even work? If I cast maximized Fireball and it uses a 6th-level slot, does it remove my memorized PfMW or my Chain Lightning?) If I was going to do a 3E-style "maximize/empower/extend/quicken/still/etc." system, I would probably just give the player a number of "metamagic points"  each day, which could be used to cast a spell better. So an  empowered Fireball would still just use  a 3rd-level slot, but it would use up a metamagic point.

But I'm not enamored of that 3E system. I would rather make it a question of player choice and character development. Like, hone you spellcasting skills in this direction, and become this kind of caster, hone your skills in a different  direction and become that kind of caster. Which direction you invest your time into would lead to flavorful differences between individuals of the same class, and there would be opportunity costs for going in one direction and missing out on the  benefits of a different direction.

But... honestly I feel like Specialists already play that role?

[Endarire]

To my present understanding, OlvynSpells's metamagics just spend the bottom rightmost slot of a spell level, as if the character had been level drained.

[subtledoctor]

That’s really weird though, isn’t it? At a fundamental level, in a Vancian system where Fireball has a specific memorized slot, it just doesn’t make sense to use a different specific memorized slot for Fireball. 

Not to mention it’s utterly incompatible with 5E Casting and TnB’s multisorcerers. (Though, frankly, using different-level slots would make more sense in those spellcasting systems. Doesn’t D&D currently restrict this kind of metamagic to sorcerers? It’s no wonder.)

[Endarire]

In 5e, Metamagic is normally a Sor-only trick.  (Maybe other classes outside of core got it.)  In 3.x and PF1e, all casters could do it if they had the right feats and spell slots.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Endarire

[Quester]

Some notes:

I think the miscellaneous skills that mages have access to are supposed to include Wild Talent, but not Grease Jar/Smoke Bomb. Right? The latter feels like a rogue only type skill.

I started a new game, and gave Imoen the Adventurer kit. She then got six proficiency points to spend. The readme on the GitHub page says fighters and thieves get eight points at 1st lvl, but maybe that's for the trueclass only?

I gave Lore Bonus to Xzar. The dialogue window said his Lore was increased by 15, however in the record screen there was no visible increase. Also, in the actual proficiency description it says +25 Lore, not 15.

After assigning Xzar's proficiency points, his record screen says he has one point in Two-Weapon Style. I did not give him that and I don't think it was even an option?

For Montaron, it's the same but for him it's two points in Two-Weapon Style. As a fighter/thief, he got six points to spend.

I can take some screenshots if you want.

 

[subtledoctor]

13 minutes ago, Quester said:

I can take some screenshots if you want.

Can you upload  a savegame?  Would be more useful.

[mickabouille]

I've had this kind of problem when having mods that mess up with proficiencies *after* (in the install order) a mod that gave conversation based profs (I think it was npc_ee? or maybe "old" MnG?).

Then the dialogs get incorrect.

Edited October 28, 2022 by mickabouille

[subtledoctor]

1 hour ago, mickabouille said:

I've had this kind of problem when having mods that mess up with proficiencies *after* (in the install order) a mod that gave conversation based profs (I think it was npc_ee? or maybe "old" MnG?).

Then the dialogs get incorrect.

Are you having that problem right now?

The new proficiency-by-dialogue code in the  pre-release v6 of this mod has also made its way to pre-release versions of Faiths & Powers (v0.85) and Might & Guile (v5). Also NPC_EE. So the new pre-release versions should  all work well together in this sense. SoB component 123 has specific instructions to recompile several proficiency dialogues in order to make them agree with the current proficiency system.

But if you mix-and-match the pre-release versions with older official release versions, then each mod uses its own proficiency dialogue and they may agree. Bringing all the proficiency dialogues to be aligned together is one of the main improvements that I put a lot of effort into. If you are seeing a problem in this regard, it would be  heklpful to have as much detail about  it as possible. (Which character used the dialogue, and which versions of which mods you have installed, etc.)

[mickabouille]

I still have it, my install is kind of broken in multiple ways but I'll try to keep on with it for a time.

But it was done long before your recent pre-release changes (looking at people playthroughs reports here, I play somewhat slowly)

Edited October 28, 2022 by mickabouille

[Quester]

20 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Can you upload  a savegame?  Would be more useful.

https://easyupload.io/mvys51

What's the diagnosis, doctor?

[subtledoctor]

30 minutes ago, Quester said:

https://easyupload.io/mvys51

What's the diagnosis, doctor?

Btw what game is this? BGEE or EET? Always need to know that. 

[Quester]

59 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Btw what game is this? BGEE or EET? Always need to know that. 

It's EET, with a ton of mods. Do you need the Weidu.log?