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joproulx99

Great Mod! Here's My Wish List / Suggestions

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First thing first I'd like to express my gratitude for modders like you who keep enhancing this epic game that seem to never get old from all the work you guys been doing through all those years :) .

 

I decided it was time for another playthrough recently and looking at all the mods I could get, this one slip past my radar unfortunatly : / . I use SR SCS and many others.

 

I'm now in 2/3 SoA and something strikes me as obvious, as a gamer I have evolved and expect as much cookies as can be to play a game. It's 2015!!

 

So that being said, why stick to ''kits'' !!

 

TO THE POINT

-------------------

why isnt a class a combination of all these kits you have done ratter then split all cool stuffs in 3-4 kits...I mean when i'm looking at them kits I want them all :) (almost)

 

Lets take a look at what its like on paper!

 

Rogue

 

Class Features:
- Rolls d6 for hit points.
- Can specialize (++) in any bladed melee weapon available to Thieves
- At 1st level, gains a +1 bonus to hit with melee weapons, and +1 bonus to armor class. At level 5 and every other 4 levels, these bonuses increase by 1, up to +5 at 17th level.
- At 4th level can use Precise Strike once per day. For every 4 levels, the ability can be used an additional time per day.
- Can use light armors.
- Can use magical devices.

- Can Backstab with a x3 multiplier. At level 5 and every other 4 levels the backstab multiplier is increased by 1, up to x6 at level 13.

- At 1st level, can use Set Snare once per day. At level 6 and every other 5 levels the ability can be used an additional time per day.

- At 1st level can use Set Special Snare once per day. At 6th level and every other 5 levels gains one extra use of this ability, up to 4 times per day at 16th level.

- At 1st lvl gains 40 points to distribute between Open Locks, Find/Remove Traps, Pick Pockets, Move Silently, Hide in Shadows, Set Traps and Detect Illusions skills. The thief gains 25 more points per level.
- At 4th level can use Paralytic Toxin once per day. For every 4 levels, the ability can be used an additional time per day.
- At 4th level, can use Poison Weapon once per day. For every 4 levels, the ability can be used an additional time per day.
- At 4th level, gains a repertoire of Dirty Tricks he can use once per day to perform various abilities. For every 4 levels, the ability can be used an additional time per day.
- At 10th level, gains Smoke Bomb dirty trick.
- At 17th level can use Evasion 1/day

SET SNARE: Sets a trap within the target area which remains in the area until a creature comes within 15 feet of it. When this happens, the trap is triggered and fires arrows at every opponent within a 30 foot radius.
Lvl 1 - 2d8+5 missile damage
Lvl 11 - 2d8+5 missile damage; 2d6 poison dmg for 3 rounds (6d6 in total)
Lvl 16 - 3d8+5 missile; 4d8+2 fire
Lvl 21 - 3d8+5; 20 poison; save vs death at +4 or death

DIRTY TRICK: The thief has acquired a repertoire of feints, ruses, and various unsportsmanlike tactics that can come in handy in a fight.

DIRTY TRICK (ENSNARE): entangle a target within 10 feet for 1 round.

DIRTY TRICK (THROW SAND): blinds a target within 5 feet for 1 round.

DIRTY TRICK (SMOKE BOMB): the thief becomes invisible for 1 round.

 

POISON WEAPON:

 

SET SPECIAL SNARE:

 

PARALYTIC TOXIN:

 

PRECISE STRIKE:

 

 

Cons; NONE :)

 

Now thats a complete class!! It doesnt even strike me as OP...just a complete fun class as of today's standard with many options to get the job done.

 

I would do something like that for all these classes

 

Merge Fighter(yours) with berserker and wizard slayer!

Merge kensai and barb!

Merge all Ranger kits (only Cons i would get is limited to studded leather armor)(man how cool this class would be all of a sudden...who doesnt want a ranger master of bows with an animal companion, can cast some spells, dual wield, stealth and do some backstab etc..? I want it now! plz)

Merge all Pally kits :O

Merge all rogues(as in above example)

 

Anyway thats my 2c ,I know how to mod (not bg) and how much work it can be, and since learning how to do it is the hardest part generally, i dont really feel like learning to mod this one. I can only wish experienced modders look at this idea and make a mod or submod of it!

 

balanced wise, there is so much mods to make this game harder I dont see the problem here, one can only do so much in one round anyway.

 

Cheers keep on the great work!!

 

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Holy crap... I couldn't come close to demonstrating the cultural difference between GenX and millenials better than this post right here. Just... wow.

 

We need to get all these smart young grew-up-with-touchscreens kids to invent time travel, so that they can send me back to the 90s.

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Well i might be older then you are actually...I'm 33

 

English being my secondary langage...I get it that you do not agree with me! lol.

 

I wish I had not evolved too somehow...but I did with the consequences that come with it. : /

 

And if you look at what is being done here you can clearly see that they feel +/- the same, knowingly or not, otherwise they wouldnt try to add called hits and stances to fighters etc...

 

I played WoW for a while and although I'll probably never play it again, in terms of class/spec(kits)/abilities, every classes/spec was fun to play and had different feel, Modders could get very good results by letting them be inspired by it. Every classes had around 30 abilities too...warriors would not be right click and be done.

 

Just look at druids in wow and imagine it here

 

Restoration druid = healer druid with good regeneration spells

Feral Druid = change in cat form(panther) and get rogue like skillz (stealth, bleeding damage etc)

Guardian Druid = change in bear form with good abilities to tank

 

The thing is that every of those spec could do the others spec's job, but just not as good.

 

Even if bg2 is my all time favorite rpg, it certainly isnt because of the DnD 2nd ed rules, more because of the setting(Forgotten Realm, epic story, many different enemies, quests that feel important to do)

 

The past 15 years has done some very good things imo.

 

Serioulsy grew-up-with-touchscreens kid haha...man you can't be so far off, I'm not even on facebook, twitter, and I never downloaded an app on my phone yet...

 

But don't worry I dont get offended on internet posts anyway...you actually made me laugh :p thx!

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Rogue

---

Cons; NONE :)

Well, yeah, cons are none, as in, the character is way too overpowered to actually function as anything else than a pure power house. You don't need delayed fireballs, you got traps, your melee damage is close to any fighter that's not hasted, and if you decide so, you can backstab multiple times. As in, go invisible...

Your thieving skills, well you loose none, so you have everything at the end of the game basically.

 

Now, I know something is off with balance if you get all those.

Now of course this doesn't say that there's no merit in giving the classes more flexibility, but it should come with some cost.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola

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Merge all Ranger kits (only Cons i would get is limited to studded leather armor)(man how cool this class would be all of a sudden...who doesnt want a ranger master of bows with an animal companion, can cast some spells, dual wield, stealth and do some backstab etc..? I want it now! plz)

I actually like this idea for a true class ranger. Backstab x2, Bow mastery, Animal companion, few unique spells - there you have it.

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Rogue

---

Cons; NONE :)

Well, yeah, cons are none, as in, the character is way too overpowered to actually function as anything else than a pure power house. You don't need delayed fireballs, you got traps, your melee damage is close to any fighter that's not hasted, and if you decide so, you can backstab multiple times. As in, go invisible...

Your thieving skills, well you loose none, so you have everything at the end of the game basically.

 

Now, I know something is off with balance if you get all those.

Now of course this doesn't say that there's no merit in giving the classes more flexibility, but it should come with some cost.

 

Yeah I only meant to show a picture of what the rogue (in my example) could look like, obviously it wasnt set in stone. I'm sure a ''swashbuckler'' that can backstab, have utility traps, dirty tricks, can use poison/day and paralytic toxin/day etc does look more like an actual complete rogue concept. Dmg numbers can be debated in testing. I like having more tools. Rogues are squishy and even with good AC they cant take much dmg and will never replace a fighter spot in a team. Again numbers can be debated, with IR in mind and armor starting to get dmg reduction based on how heavy they are this seem even more true, fighter can stay in melee, rogues can risk going melee for a short period and if/before it gets hot move out.

 

Then when it comes down to kits, improve 1 or 2 aspect and nerf 1 or 2 others for flavor's sake. Nerfing thieving skills suck imo. Idk for example bounty hunters traps do more damage/effect last more rounds but they have less backstab multiplier and poison/day/or dmg etc...

 

Merge all Ranger kits (only Cons i would get is limited to studded leather armor)(man how cool this class would be all of a sudden...who doesnt want a ranger master of bows with an animal companion, can cast some spells, dual wield, stealth and do some backstab etc..? I want it now! plz)

I actually like this idea for a true class ranger. Backstab x2, Bow mastery, Animal companion, few unique spells - there you have it.

 

Yeah you get the point :)

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I think you should check out the Multikit mod and play something like a Berserker/Wild Mage/Swashbuckler or Kensai/Conjurer/Assassin. If you get the latest Multikit version by FlameWing, you can abuse of a bug that causes all the abilities of a Multikit to be given to all of other multikits too (you'll need to install several multikits though).

 

Also if you prefer you could copy/paste all the contents of the clab files into one, and then use that kit with all the abilities (and probably more bugs than people in world... Avoid this recommendation).

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Well I,m not a big fan of multi-class and dual class in general. I only wish that every single class had more tactical options fitting their role. And kits should expand a particular aspect for the class while reducing other ones without removing them completly.

 

Another example would be Fighters

 

I wish that Fighters would be a cross of KR fighters/wizard slayer/berserker with disruptive magic abilities/day, Raging abilities, Called hits, stances etc..

 

KR is so close to what I have in mind, its just that it split all cool abilities across multiple kits instead of making vanilla fighters having all of them, and making kits just either improve on some at the cost of others. For example Wizard Slayer could have more disruptive strikes/day with better power like 60-80% but reduced Rage power and Called hit/day progression. Something like that.

 

Actually disruptive strikes could be another called hit option, instead of pinning or disarming, disrupt caster.

 

Again more tools for each classes=more fun.

 

If mages would have a limited amount of spells/school and specialist mages would be limited to their school only, I guess everyone would think how cool it would be to have access to almost every spell in the game whatever the mage class/kit they choose, cool thing that its actually the case :p. I feel the same about other classes right now, just that instead its all spread out into each kits, which imo is sad.

 

Anyway whatever the outcome KR is better then vanilla in every way. I can only wish for it to get even better, which is subjective to anyone :)

 

Cheers!

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Ha ha cheers man, I didn't mean any offense by my response. Just commenting on how clearly your preferences and sensibilities ("look how far video games have come in 15 years;" more options & powers = more fun) are so perfect diametrically opposed to mine ("look at the terrible things that have happened to video games in the last 15 years;" more options & powers = less differentiation and less fun). Admittedly I am a complete curmudgeon, if I could make the world stay like it was in the 1990s I totally would.

 

Unfortunately for you (in the context of this post) I suspect Demi leans toward my sensibilities. So you're not likely to see KR move in the direction you suggest. But as Crevs says, you can just splice together the CLAB files in your own game.

 

Ultimately what might please both of us is to eliminate the 2e concept of 'kits' and have every character start similarly, and then grow and specialize via something like a perk system. It would end up closer to Oblivion, where you have the choice of advancing whichever skills you want.

 

This is totally possible right now, by hijacking the HLA system. I've often toyed with slapping a mod together that replaces formal kit abilities with player-chosen "low-level abilities" or non-weapon proficiencies. But it would be a ton of work, and it would be incompatible with a bunch of existing popular mods, so I think very few people would use it. Wolpak is doing something like this with his "Classes Reborn" mod over on the baldursgate.com forum.

 

Anyway have fun brother, however you define it.

Edited by subtledoctor

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Ultimately what might please both of us is to eliminate the 2e concept of 'kits' and have every character start similarly, and then grow and specialize via something like a perk system. It would end up closer to Oblivion, where you have the choice of advancing whichever skills you want.

Hmm, I would suspect that, it might be better to make all the kits and base classes to be equal at level 1, except a few item restrictions(for kensais etc), and then allow the kit to dictate the specialization on how those skills are used(and HLAs).

So a fighter gets rage(+damage), defensive(+AC) and offensive(+thac0) -stances... and the bonuses are dictated by the kit, so barbarian/berserker get's x2 bonuses from rage and a few temporary HPs/damge resistance, while less bonuses on the two others, Kensai gets *2 offensive stance and damage bonus, while less from the two other forms, and Wizard slayer gets elemental bonuses(?) to all the stances, but less of to each. And the pure fighter gets the half way from each of the styles.

 

So basically what the Kit Revision already does, but add in the lesser versions of the other styles as an optional stances.

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Ultimately what might please both of us is to eliminate the 2e concept of 'kits' and have every character start similarly, and then grow and specialize via something like a perk system. It would end up closer to Oblivion, where you have the choice of advancing whichever skills you want.

Hmm, I would suspect that, it might be better to make all the kits and base classes to be equal at level 1, except a few item restrictions(for kensais etc), and then allow the kit to dictate the specialization on how those skills are used(and HLAs).

So a fighter gets rage(+damage), defensive(+AC) and offensive(+thac0) -stances... and the bonuses are dictated by the kit, so barbarian/berserker get's x2 bonuses from rage and a few temporary HPs/damge resistance, while less bonuses on the two others, Kensai gets *2 offensive stance and damage bonus, while less from the two other forms, and Wizard slayer gets elemental bonuses(?) to all the stances, but less of to each. And the pure fighter gets the half way from each of the styles.

 

So basically what the Kit Revision already does, but add in the lesser versions of the other styles as an optional stances.

 

That is indeed very interresting. So basicly its possible to convert HLA system closer to ''feats'' similar to 3ed+, then make every classes perks an ''HLA'' so one could choose how to build his class instead? With some kit only feats like improved rage for berserker/barb and so on? Wow...that would be quite the deal imo. Sad thing I'm afraid I dont have the will to learn to mod this game, even though its the best game ever, I know how much work is involved in modding from having done it on other games, it doesnt even look that ''modder friendly'' either so best I can do is throwing my 2c, I'm just too late to the party! Its fun to discuss concept possibilities within IE noneless. It really feels open for many things, it doesnt seem as limited as I 1rst thought.

 

I'll go take a look at Wolpak's work, see what he's up too. thx!

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That is indeed very interresting. So basicaly its possible to convert HLA system closer to ''feats'' similar to 3ed+, then make every classes perks an ''HLA'' so one could choose how to build his class instead?

If you re read that again, I didn't say that ... my idea doesn't use the HLAs, but just the kits own table of special effects to upgrade the skills they have/acquire at level x(yes, it doesn't need to be level 1!), while yours does it with the HLA table of sorts, and so in your idea there's no standard kits but just the one. Or it could be made via a forced dialog etc.

It's a valid idea, and it's doable... if a little off the books(as in, it won't be support other kit mods, and that's usually bad), but the way you do it is you set up a HLA table that allows the upgrades to be selected, and you change the rate of HLAs so they can be acquired earlier.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola

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If you re read that again, I didn't say that ...

sorry I thought you were expanding on Subtledoctor's post and got confused.

 

but the way you do it is you set up a HLA table that allows the upgrades to be selected, and you change the rate of HLAs so they can be acquired earlier.

Ok, but is it possible to allow some HLAs to unlock only at higher levels? To avoid low level fighters from having the option to get whirlwind for example? Man I'm almost tempted to learn how to mod it but I must not.( when i do i tend to get obsessed and its not something I want in my life right now lol)

 

I find this idea very interesting though. I feel it could open a world of class customisation.

 

The forced dialogue might do it even better if I get what you mean, you could force a dialogue on level up and choose if you want say 1 more rage/day vs 1 disruptive strike/day...etc?

 

Ah anyway when i think of it, the next nightmare would come from the AI that I guess would need intense scripting to work with it : /

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Ok, but is it possible to allow some HLAs to unlock only at higher levels?

Of course. :p

Just look at the table. It has minimum and maximum level figures, the only thing is, you can only have 24 abilities, which kinda crowds the table a lots.

Next stop, the 4 part tutorial, part 1, part 2, part 3 and part 4.

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Ah, but the benefit of re-using the HLA system is that you can introduce player choice into the mix. Instead of choosing a character template and then being forced to develop whatever kit abilities are in that template, you could *choose* which skills to develop.

 

And by skills I mean even the most basic stuff. Like stealth for rangers: they would start out without the ability to hide in shadows. You could choose to enable the button when you level up to level 2. Then at level 3 you choose choose a bonus to stealth, contingent on having taken the first one. The third step in this progression might be the ability to backstab for double damage; later you could increase it to triple damage; etc. Eventually your character would take the shape of a Stalker.

 

Alternatively at level 2 you could choose a bonus to missile weapons. After that, a called shot. Etc, etc, and you eventually become an Archer. At some point going too far down a path would close doors on other paths. Because the kit abilities of the vanilla kits are already there, it provides a nice skeleton for re-creating those template. But you wouldn't *have* to go down that road - you could also mix different skills, making a mish-mash character. You could not specialize at all and instead take 'universal perks,' non-weapon proficiencies that work for all classes - stat bonuses, saving throw bonuses, movement bonus, etc.

 

I wrote out some thoughts on this a couple years ago:

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/237793/#Comment_237793

 

Having since learned some Weidu-fu, I can now say that this is *totally* possible to do. The HLA table limit of 24 abilities is not a problem, because you can just use mandatory background kit switches via the invisible monster trick to refresh the table with new, higher-level abilities.

 

Modders, instead of making new kits with hard wired CLAB files, could simply make new abilities and ability trees, enabling even more player choices. It would be amazing.

Edited by subtledoctor

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