SubtleMods: NPC_EE - in-game customization for NPCs

[Greenhorn]

2 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Probably it’s fine but... it’s weird that that mod messes with that file. Might be worth a mention over there. I doubt it is on purpose. 

Ah, it is not relevant in BG:SoD anyway, I will worry about that in due time. But I noticed something looking at change log of this mod, it is supposed to grant even main PC chance to take multiclass for example and supposedly enable Jaheira to be ranger/druid. I suppose former is discarded and later a typo meaning ranger/cleric?

[subtledoctor]

1 hour ago, Greenhorn said:

I noticed something looking at change log of this mod, it is supposed to grant even main PC chance to take multiclass for example and supposedly enable Jaheira to be ranger/druid. I suppose former is discarded and later a typo meaning ranger/cleric?

If you have a ranger/druid kit - Faiths & Powers adds one - then you can make Jaheira a ranger/druid. 

The mod doesn’t specifically let Charname use the class-change ability, since Charname gets to go through character generation. But the newest version of the mod uses a Tome to make these changes instead of an innate ability. If there is an NPC you don’t want to change, nothing stops you from giving their tome to Charname and letting Charname use it instead. (Or you can just CLUA yourself an extra copy.)

[Greenhorn]

13 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

If you have a ranger/druid kit - Faiths & Powers adds one - then you can make Jaheira a ranger/druid. 

The mod doesn’t specifically let Charname use the class-change ability, since Charname gets to go through character generation. But the newest version of the mod uses a Tome to make these changes instead of an innate ability. If there is an NPC you don’t want to change, nothing stops you from giving their tome to Charname and letting Charname use it instead. (Or you can just CLUA yourself an extra copy.)

Quote

• New: kit-switch for Charname as well as NPCs!

Thanks, you are right of course, it is easy to customize PC one way or the other. Now, off to see R/D combo, it suits her perfectly I think. 

[subtledoctor]

Update to version 5.3

• added an option to change your kit only, and this option can be used by dual-class characters
• rangers and cleric/rangers get their proper two stars in dual-wielding
• not as many spells will be removed from your spellbook when changing class (so if you change from, say, wizard to bard, you can keep your known spells)

[subtledoctor]

...And very quickly updated again to version 5.4, which allows dual-classed characters and others who only want to change their kit, to also change their ability scores. Because why not.

Just to be clear, when you use the NPC_EE tome you now get two options:

1. Change your class, ability scores, kit, and proficiencies (this drops you to level zero)
2. Change your ability scores and kit, but keep the same class, level, and proficiencies

Dual class characters can use the tome, but they can only use option 2.

[guyudennis]

For dual-classed characters, does option 2 change the kit for the 1st class or the 2nd? And in case it’s the latter, what happens if the 1st class already had a kit?

[subtledoctor]

2 hours ago, guyudennis said:

For dual-classed characters, does option 2 change the kit for the 1st class or the 2nd? And in case it’s the latter, what happens if the 1st class already had a kit?

There’s no “kit for this class or that class.” Each character only has on data field for a kit; so they can have one kit. If the kit does not match any of their classes it can cause problems; if it does match a class, it will operate on that class. So for example, if you keep Imoen as a 7th-level thief dualled to mage, and use this to give her the Swashbuckler kit, then you will get seven levels of Swashbuckler bonuses. She will continue as a mage, and get no more kit bonuses. (Just as if she was a Swashbuckler from the beginning and then dual-classed to mage.) By contrast, if you give her, say, the Illusionist kit and you use a mod like Tome & Blood or Refinements that give Illusionists special abilities at high levels, then she will continue to gain those abilities because those kit abilities are in the class which is advancing. 

Hope that’s clear. 

Btw this does not (currently) allow you to change proficiencies if you only change kit. So in special instances like the Swashbuckler, which can specialize, giving someone that kit will leave them as s Swashbuckler with simple proficiency. (You should be able to use future proficiency points to specialize, though. 

In general, you’ll have most control by removing dual-class flags, dropping people to level zero, and setting up their class and kit from scratch. The Readme has instructions to make a new dual-class from scratch. But if for whatever reason you want to make a small adjustment while keeping the sane XP, level, class, and proficiencies, you now have that option. (This can be useful to give a kit to multiclass characters, if you are otherwise content with their build.)

[Endarire]

This seemed like a bug:

-I made Imoen a Bounty Hunter/Mage (Thief/Mage multiclass) and she didn't get her starting +15 bonus to Set Traps.

-The text description for Thief/Mage starts with "mTHIEF."

-The text description for Fighter/Thief starts with "f."

-The text description for Fighter/Cleric starts with "f."

-Fighter/Talon of Malar should have a big M instead of Fighter/Talon of malar.

-When setting ability scores (STR, DEX...), the 'set to #' works but the descriptive text says to set the STR score regardless of stat.  It was odd setting my INT stat when the text said I was setting my STR stat though I wasn't.

F&P HLA Notes:
-Spiritual Attunement's description has a typo of "Attunrment."

-Greater Shades seemingly has no icon.

-Should the HLA transformations like Water Elemental ignore Boots of Speed if equipped?

-Should the Water Elemental's weapon still be equipped and character's speed reduced if I reverted to natural form before the duration expired?

-Should the holy symbol granted at epic level be the same as the deity worshipped?  My test character was a Fighter/Tormite but got a Lathander holy symbol.

-How to edit what files to change the proficiencies/sphere access of kits?

Thankee!

Edited August 14, 2022 by Endarire

[subtledoctor]

On 8/14/2022 at 12:29 AM, Endarire said:

I made Imoen a Bounty Hunter/Mage (Thief/Mage multiclass) and she didn't get her starting +15 bonus to Set Traps.

Is this a thing? I don't see anything for this in the Bounty Hunter CLAB table...

On 8/14/2022 at 12:29 AM, Endarire said:

-The text description for Thief/Mage starts with "mTHIEF."

-The text description for Fighter/Thief starts with "f."

-The text description for Fighter/Cleric starts with "f."

I don't see these in my game. Maybe some other mod is affecting the class descriptions?

On 8/14/2022 at 12:29 AM, Endarire said:

-Fighter/Talon of Malar should have a big M instead of Fighter/Talon of malar.

-When setting ability scores (STR, DEX...), the 'set to #' works but the descriptive text says to set the STR score regardless of stat.  It was odd setting my INT stat when the text said I was setting my STR stat though I wasn't.

-Spiritual Attunement's description has a typo of "Attunrment."

Easy enough, fixes are applied locally and will be uploaded next time the mods are updated.

[Endarire]

From here:  A Bounty Hunter normally gets a +15 class bonus to Set Traps.  Maybe your mods changed that.

What's your recommended install order for post-EET End mods like Randomizer?

Edited August 16, 2022 by Endarire

[subtledoctor]

16 hours ago, Endarire said:

From here:  A Bounty Hunter normally gets a +15 class bonus to Set Traps.  Maybe your mods changed that.

Well I don’t see anything granting such a bonus in the unmodded game files, so there is nothing for a mod to change. Could be something hard-coded. 

16 hours ago, Endarire said:

What's your recommended install order for post-EET End mods like Randomizer?

No idea. I’ve only ever installed EET_End once, I’m no expert there. 

[Endarire]

I tested this today with swapping a Gnome Illusionist/Thief to Mage/Thief for the sake of giving him a different Thief kit, but things worked... oddly.  Specifically, I used the Deep Gnome subrace from here.

He kept his Thief/Mage and had the effects of each kit (Bounty Hunter & Illusionist).  I also was able to pick additional Thief skills and proficiencies that stacked with what I got at character creation instead of replacing them.

This seems like a bug.

Also, installing on BGEE with only DLCMerger installed before provides this install time bug, regardless of whether the previous components are installed:

ERROR: Cannot find 2 rows with at least 42 columns.
ERROR: [xplevel.2da] -> [override/xplevel.2da] Patching Failed (COPY) (Failure("Cannot Read 2DA Entry"))
Stopping installation because of error.
Stopping installation because of error.

ERROR Installing [NPC class/stat/kit choices], rolling back to previous state
Will uninstall 558 files for [NPC_EE/NPC_EE.TP2] component 2000.
Uninstalled    558 files for [NPC_EE/NPC_EE.TP2] component 2000.
ERROR: Failure("Cannot Read 2DA Entry")
Please make a backup of the file: SETUP-NPC_EE.DEBUG and look for support at: SubtleD
Using Language [English]

Edited August 20, 2022 by Endarire

[subtledoctor]

4 hours ago, Endarire said:

also was able to pick additional Thief skills and proficiencies that stacked with what I got at character creation instead of replacing them.

This seems like a bug.

No, this is because you used it on a character created from scratch, instead of on an NPC. This was designed for NPCs. (It’s right there in the name  ) I have mentioned more than once that using this with Charname will result in bugs, particularly relating to proficiencies. 

The reason is, there is no way to remove proficiencies you choose in the normal course of character generation and leveling up. They are applied more or less indelibly on your character. So using the NPC_EE tome cannot remove them and will give you extras. 

There is no way around this. It is not a bug, it is simply how the game works. All mods can do is design use-cases that make allowance for how the engine works. If you insist on exceeding the bounds of those use-cases, you will experience deviations from normal behavior. Your options then are 1) limit yourself to use-cases that are known to work well (something I have suggested to you on many occasions), or 2) play the game with some deviations from normal behavior. There is no 3rd choice where mods made by other people will magically grow in scope and overcome engine limitations to perfectly encompass your personal, idiosyncratic idea of how the game could be. It’s just not going to happen. If you put less effort into requesting that modders implement this or that horrifically complex idea, and more effort into figuring out how best to enjoy a modded game as it is right now, you will be happier. 

4 hours ago, Endarire said:

installing on BGEE with only DLCMerger installed before provides this install time bug,

Uninstall everything and tell me if there is an “xplevel.2da” file in your override folder. 

[Endarire]

There was no xplevel.2da in override.

[subtledoctor]

Huh, upon investigation, the copies of XPLEVEL.2da in BGEE and SoD have an extra entry in the Druid row. And this has persisted across at least two game patches and four or more years. Gah, Beamdog, why is your QA so shitty??

I'll see about working around this.

EDIT - fixed in v5.5.

Edited August 21, 2022 by subtledoctor