SubtleMods: NPC_EE - in-game customization for NPCs

[subtledoctor]

Small update to v4.4.3, updating the weapon proficiency dialogue so as to work better with the Scales of Balance proficiency overhaul.

[Gwaihir]

Quick question: let's say i want to make Nalia a gallant. Is it enough to make her a bard using NPC_EE, and then select the kit in-game? Or does she need to be a fighter-mage?

[subtledoctor]

2 hours ago, Gwaihir said:

Quick question: let's say i want to make Nalia a gallant. Is it enough to make her a bard using NPC_EE, and then select the kit in-game? Or does she need to be a fighter-mage?

I’m assuming you mean the fighter/mage gallant kit. In that case... hmm. NPC_EE detects the Might & Guile bard changes, so in this case when you tell to to make Nalia a “bard” it will change her to a... mage/thief. Which precludes choosing the Gallant kit. So yeah, in this case you would need to change her into a fighter/mage.

Edited December 21, 2021 by subtledoctor

[Gwaihir]

53 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

So yeah, in this case you would need to change her into a fighter/mage.

Got it. Thanks.

[Chitown Willie]

Subtledoctor,

Double-checking - I've installed the following alternate class:

~NPC_EE/NPC_EE.TP2~ #0 #141 // Choose a class for Khalid -> Make Khalid a ranger/cleric: v4.4.3

And noticed that Khalid starts with a whopping 3,138 XP:

Combined with :

~SCALES_OF_BALANCE/SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #210 // XPO - Slower, standardized XP Tables: v5.34

And Khalid starts as a 2/2 Cleric/Ranger.

Was that intended?

[subtledoctor]

I've updated the mod to version 4.5 which improves the script and dialogue to change your stats, giving better feedback as you go. This is a small change - aside from the improved feedback, the actual features of the mod are exactly the same.

I've been tinkering with a MUCH bigger change to the mod, which will greatly greatly simplify both installation and use in-game. But it's a fair amount of work. Currently working on scripted class changes, and then I need to totally revamp the proficiencies-by-dialogue system, and then I need to write from the ground up a thief-skills-by-dialogue system. No e.t.a. right now.

I toyed with adding a massive new feature, which would make multiclass versoins of every single-class kit in the game, so you could be a proper multiclass berserker/mage, or fighter/evoker, or whatever, choosing the kitted multiclasses right in the character generation menus. I have working code to generate all the new multiclass kits on the fly, taking into account any/all mod kits that have been added to the game. It's dope. (ADD_KIT_EX is soooo great!) But, on reflection, I think it's not really worth it. There would be problems with HLA tables that I don't have time to code around, and the benefit is pretty small compared to simply being a fighter/mage with the single-class berserker kit, etc. So that code will go on the shelf.

At this point the class/proficiency/skill stuff is more important, it will be a much more interesting and important addition to the mod.

Edited January 28, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Graion Dilach]

HLA tables are among the things m7multikit doesn't get right unfortunately either (it generates them, but doesn't copy the result to override).

[Endarire]

What about adding the "HLA tables may not work properly" warning for multiclassing?

[subtledoctor]

2 hours ago, Graion Dilach said:

HLA tables are among the things m7multikit doesn't get right unfortunately either

HLA tables are a bit complicated when it comes to multiclass kits. Not for nothing in Faiths & Powers we just trash the existing ones and generate new ones from scratch.

20 minutes ago, Endarire said:

What about adding the "HLA tables may not work properly" warning for multiclassing?

Eh, it's just not worth it. Why generate 200 extra kits when you can just use the dialogue to get the existing kit? Sure it would be nice to have them in the CharGen menus, but... the costs outweigh that rather superficial benefit.

[Endarire]

What convenient ways exist in EE at least to merge all of a kit’s HLAs into a table or list somewhere for automatic discovery and use?

[Jarno Mikkola]

1 hour ago, Endarire said:

What convenient ways exist in EE at least to merge all of a kit’s HLAs into a table or list somewhere for automatic discovery and use?

Near Infinity. You then just need to know that they are the LUxxxx.2da files, all listed in the luabbr.2da file

[subtledoctor]

1 hour ago, Endarire said:

What convenient ways exist in EE at least to merge all of a kit’s HLAs into a table or list somewhere for automatic discovery and use?

None?

The problem is this: each class has the basic HLA table: one for unkitted fighters and one for unkitted mages. The multiclass fighter/mage has its HLA table, which consists of most of (but not necessarily all) the basic fighter HLAs and the basic mage HLAs. But kits have their own tables - the Berserker might have most of the basic fighter table, but it might lack one or two fighter HLAs and might have one or two extra Berserker-only HLAs. (Refinements for instance does this sort of thing to make kits more distinct.)

So how do you make a Berserker/mage HLA table? You would need to use the F/M table as a base, and compare the fighter half of it to the Berserker table and figure out which differences are Berserker-specific differences, and not single-class fighter differences, and then create a new table that incorporates those Berserker-specific differences. (And that's an easy case - what about more exotic kits that have entirely different HLA tables, like the stuff in the Shadow Magic mod or similar stuff?)

Could it be done? Is Weidu code capable of doing that? Sure, yes. But do I know how to do it? Can I devote the time to figuring out how to do it? Absolutely not.

So maybe we say, eh, forget the special HLAs, just give them the basic F/M table. Which is fine, but that is precisely what you get if you simply apply the single-class Berserker kit to a F/M. So there would be no difference. And if there is no difference, why make a mod that adds 200 kits to the game?

[Abel]

On 1/28/2022 at 8:45 PM, subtledoctor said:

I've been tinkering with a MUCH bigger change to the mod, which will greatly greatly simplify both installation and use in-game. But it's a fair amount of work. Currently working on scripted class changes, and then I need to totally revamp the proficiencies-by-dialogue system, and then I need to write from the ground up a thief-skills-by-dialogue system. No e.t.a. right now.

I toyed with adding a massive new feature, which would make multiclass versoins of every single-class kit in the game, so you could be a proper multiclass berserker/mage, or fighter/evoker, or whatever, choosing the kitted multiclasses right in the character generation menus. I have working code to generate all the new multiclass kits on the fly, taking into account any/all mod kits that have been added to the game. It's dope. (ADD_KIT_EX is soooo great!) But, on reflection, I think it's not really worth it. There would be problems with HLA tables that I don't have time to code around, and the benefit is pretty small compared to simply being a fighter/mage with the single-class berserker kit, etc. So that code will go on the shelf.

Hey, subtledoctor!

Endarire told me you were working on that. That's what I had in mind to improve my Multikits mod. Would you be willing to share the code? You would be credited, of course! I suppose the HLA problem you mention has to do with custom HLAs? I only have the vanilla kits in mind.

[subtledoctor]

My code still only gives the player one kit - it generates a berserker/mage and a fighter/evoker, but not a berserker/evoker (which I gather is what the multikits mod is for). So I don’t know that my code would be useful. 

However, I will point you to Aquadrizzt’s QD_Multi functions (discussion here), which have the capability to make Berserker/Evokers and similar combinations baked in. 

(ADD_KIT_EX might be able to do that as well, I don’t recall whether that’s baked into the design. But it’s easy enough to do using ADD_KIT plus QD_Multi.)

As far as HLA tables, it’s just difficulty in combining a custom table from one kit with the table from another class. Easy enough to do it manually, but I haven’t (and won’t) worked out how to do it programmatically for an arbitrary set of mod kits. 

[Abel]

Thanks! Yep, my mod was using QDMulti and I was looking into switching to ADD_KIT_EX but what I'm missing is code to generate all combinations from a number of kits. Basically, I've coded every single multikit I wanted which is not ideal. I don't even know what I can achieve with WeIDU because it's been long since I've used it. I need a way to loop through arrays, I think. Wouldn't your code help with that?

I'm also interested to know if you found a way to deal with the limitations of the library that I mention there and there (internal ability naming length).