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Unearthed Arcana presents Might & Guile: tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues


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1. Encountered a problem with Haer'dalis - once he returns to the party after the Planar Prison, his Bardic spellcasting appears to not work: He only gets 1 spell each level.

Before he had 4, 4, 3, 2 spell slots.

I assume it's because it's not actually the exact same character, that had previously activated Bardic spellcasting via the innate ability. Is there any fix? I've tried to give him the ability again (via NearInfinity), but it doesn't show.

2. Another thing - is it normal that my Bard spellcasters can only use 1 spell from the last level? They've each have 3 spells from level 4 list and level 5 list (which are, respectively, their highest level spells).

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1 hour ago, Hypaspist said:

1. Encountered a problem with Haer'dalis - once he returns to the party after the Planar Prison, his Bardic spellcasting appears to not work: He only gets 1 spell each level.

Before he had 4, 4, 3, 2 spell slots.

I assume it's because it's not actually the exact same character, that had previously activated Bardic spellcasting via the innate ability. Is there any fix? I've tried to give him the ability again (via NearInfinity), but it doesn't show.

No, I think it's because the spells that grant spellcasting slots are engineered so that they cannot be applied twice, but when a character leaves the party all such effects are removed. When they can't be reapplied, you end up with no slots.

This will probably work:

Grab this hotfix mod repository (click "code" and then "download zip") and move the contents of the MnG 4.9 Bard Slot Fix folder into your game folder. Install the slot fix mod. Load up a save when Haer Dalis is not in the party, then have him join. (Alternatively, load a save when he is in the party, and have him level up.  With this in place, levelling up and joining/re-joining the party should make a bard's casting slots snap to the number they should be. (Note, I might have modified the casting slot table, so this might be slightly different from what they had before... but this will be consistent, and this is what the table will be in MnG 4.9.5 and beyond. In short, they get spells of each spell level one level later than a wizard normally does - so, 1st-level slots at level 2, 2nd-level slots at level 4, etc. up to 6th-level slots at level 13 and 7th-level slots at level 15.)

Probably should remove any spell-slot-adding equipment, save, then install this, then load the save.  It might help.

Note also, this does not affect memorization slots (the slots available on the spellbook page after you use the Prepare Spells ability). If you have a problem with memorization slots, then I have mis-read your post.

If this doesn't work and it totally FUBARs your bards' spell slots, just uninstall the hotfix and load a save from before it was installed. But I think it should work.

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10 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Note also, this does not affect memorization slots (the slots available on the spellbook page after you use the Prepare Spells ability). If you have a problem with memorization slots, then I have mis-read your post.

Sorry, I wasn't clear - Haer'dalis leaving the party due to the game mechanics (Planar Prison) affected his memorization slots. Spontaneous casting still works.

Here are screenshots:

1. Before Planar Prison (him leaving the party due to the story reasons):

Mage 9/Rogue 10

Screens

2. After returning for the Planar Prison:

Screenshots taken from my recent saves, when he's Mage 11/Rogue 12

Screens

So in essence he has far less spells at his disposal. This is what happens when you try to Prepare Spells after he returns:

https://imgur.com/a/JiQSLk5

Now of course the problem is, you can't forgo this quest if you have him in your party - he will eventually leave to do it.

Edited by Hypaspist
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Ah. Great, I made that hotfix for nothing. :rolleyes:

Can you attach the saves for each case? I have a sense of what the problem is, but directly examining his .CRE file would help me nail it down. Once it’s nailed down the fix should be pretty quick and easy. And I’m working on an update to the mod now so it’s good timing. 

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Okay, found it. I'll explain in long-winded fashion, for the sake of posterity.

If you look at your savegame in NI or EEKeeper, you should see effect #4 and effect #5: these apply -1 spell per level for spell levels 1 through 7.  Way down in the effects' "Parent Resource" field you will see they are from a spell called "D5__SLT."  The two effects together give you an overall -2 penalty.  These are here because you installed "Stat-Based Bonus Spells" from TnB or SoB.  That component increases the spells per level by two, and then selectively applies penalties based on your INT score.  MnG bards are not subject to that mod; therefore they do not get any penalties applied; therefore they must get a -2 penalty to offset the general table bonus. The result is to bring them in line with what the spell table would look like without the "Stat-Based Bonus Spells" mod.

Effect #41 is an identical -1 penalty for spell levels 1 through 7; the parent resource for this one is "D500SLT."  This is applied because any kitted mages, such as all of the MnG bards, get an automatic +1 bonus, like specialists.  We want bards to have the same number of spell slots as a non-specialist.

So the game and that other mod are applying a +3 bonus, and we are applying a -3 penalty. So far so good.

At effects #504 through 525, you will see a bunch more spell slot penalties, with the parent resource names "D517SLT" and "D589SLT." These are normal, they are only applied while you are casting spontaneously. They are canceled when you use the Spell Preparation ability. So you can ignore these.

Now, in your post-Planar Prison save, you will see "D5__SLT" applied again in effect #530 and #531, and you will see "D500SLT" applied again in effect #565. This is because the effects were not removed when HD left your party - I think because they were triggered by the QD_Multi system instead of directly by his CLAB file.  However, these effects were re-applied with his other kit abilities when he re-joined the party. I thought the QD_Multi system prevented this from happening... but I guess it is not reliable.  (@argent77 and @Aquadrizzt, we might want to look into this.) With those penalties being applied twice, HD is now subject to an overall -6 penalty...!

So to fix this for yourself: delete effects #530, #531, and #565 from Haer'Dalis in your savegame. Do not remove effect #4, #5, or #41 - we need these three penalties applied once, just not twice.

For me going forward: I will probably shift these penalties into the "initialize bardic spellcasting" ability.  That should entirely fix this issue.  And for those who wonder why the mod needs kit abilities to be initialized manually, this is the answer.

Edited by subtledoctor
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On 2/6/2021 at 2:21 PM, subtledoctor said:

Confirmed that the failure to memorize Command does not affect any other spells. Basically Command was listed as index #0 in the array of special bard spells, and then when processing them for the semi-spontaneous system the code begins with index #1. So I only needed to change a single digit - probably the easiest fix I've ever done.

Classic. It doesn't matter how many years you've been programming, you'll never really escape the good old +/-1 error.

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Hey all,

Apologies if these questions are obvious, but I was curious if Hexblade's 'Hex Aura' stacks its luck and saving throw penalties with each round's successful melee attack? From the description I'm also not sure if this melee-applied penalty has a duration or lasts until the foe is dead.

Lastly, the aura describes applying both luck and saving throw penalties. Is it correct that the luck penalty carries its own separate malus for saving throws, making it 2 points for saving throws on melee hit?

Thanks for creating this and your other mods! They've been essentially mandatory for me in these games and I've recommended them to others a bunch.

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50 minutes ago, Guest Sulf said:

Apologies if these questions are obvious, but I was curious if Hexblade's 'Hex Aura' stacks its luck and saving throw penalties with each round's successful melee attack? From the description I'm also not sure if this melee-applied penalty has a duration or lasts until the foe is dead.

Good question! It's not clear from the description, and I didn't remember the answer myself, so I just looked at the effect: the on-hit penalty lasts for 3 rounds, and it does stack. So if the Hexblade is in melee and hits the target every round (and the target fails a saving throw every time), then the target will have a total of -4 Luck and -4 to saves.

Quote

Lastly, the aura describes applying both luck and saving throw penalties. Is it correct that the luck penalty carries its own separate malus for saving throws, making it 2 points for saving throws on melee hit?

No, "Luck" has a specific meaning in this engine: positive Luck increases the physical damage you deal out (to the top of your damage roll, but not above it like a proper bonus) and reduces the damage you take from incoming spells like Fireball.  Negative Luck makes you take more damage from spells and deal out less physical damage.  The Luck spell talks about saving throws, so people conflate the two; but the Luck stat has nothing to do with saving throws, so in the kit description I try to be precise by mentioning both Luck and saves separately.

So to be clear, if you can get a Hexblade to hit a target a few times, that target:

  • will make weaker physical attacks
  • will take more damage from spells
  • will be less likely to save against spell effects

So the Hexblade will take less damage in melee, and if you fire some spells at your opponent while attacking, those spells will be more effective.  The idea is to make this kit function well as a "gish" i.e. fighter/mage mixing magic with physical attacks. (Note, this works best against non-magical opponents, and maybe clerics.  Against a mage with Stoneskin/PfMW, you can't hit them and therefore can't get this cycle going to weaken them.)

Edited by subtledoctor
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Thank you for the explanation, I admit my misunderstanding with luck was exactly as you said. I think that hex aura is a cool synergy with how these bard kits (in my observation) cannot cast spells in heavy armor. With your YARAS component from Scales of Balance, it's definitely an interesting way to keep up some damage resistance in early-mid game.

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Okay, I've made some major updates to the mod, mostly to the bard-related stuff. It is now at version 4.10.

The code for the 5E-style casting system has been completely rewritten and turned into a series of portable functions, which can be used on a per-kit, per-class, or game-wide level. (More about that later.) This system is now much more robust for the MnG bards, with quicker installation, better compatibility, and better in-game reliability. You no longer need to "initialize" your bardic spellcasting in-game; instead you will see your spellcasting button go dark and then be reenabled within a few seconds of starting the game. (Some non-spellcasting bard kits like the Herald or Whistler might need to initialize their bard songs... but most bards will not.)

If you do not want to deal with the 5E-style spell preparation and casting, then you can disable it in the "might_and_guile/d5_MnG_settings.ini" file. If you turn off 5E casting (which must be done before you install the mod!) then you will get the multiclass bards with the new bard song system, but normal 2E-style wizard spellcasting.

Finally, if you don't like the new multiclass bards and prefer the normal 2E Bard class, but you are intrigued by the 5E-style casting system, there is a new component at the end of the mod that will let normal bards (including the MnG normal bard kits  and all other normal bard kits, except for the one from Aionz's Shadow Magic mod) use semi-spontaneous 5E casting.

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5E-style spellcasting, not 5E-style multiclassing. And it does not affect druid/sorcerers at all because oh wait I see what you're saying. Well, the short answer is, this is only 5E casting for arcane spells (so far!) cast by bards or the Arcanist kit (so far!) and does not affect druids (so far!). And n one of this affects sorcerers at all; they still use fully spontaneous casting of a limited amount of known spells. This system is a replacement for the way Vancian casters cast spells.

(Now, there may or may not be a multiclass cleric/mage sitting in one of my test savegames, who uses this system for both arcane and divine spellcasting. But we're not going to talk about that right now. :nono:  Such a thing would be fairly complex, and would have to interact with various pseudo-sorcerer and pseudo-shaman multiclasses, which use a similar-but-distinct-but-parallel spellcasting system that lives under the same UI button. So the long answer is, it would take some time to work out the kinks in those sorts of interactions for a putative game-wide casting conversion mod.)

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