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Unearthed Arcana presents Might & Guile: tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues


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19 hours ago, hippofant said:

Why do you advise not using EEKeeper? I have noticed it borks on the ExtraProficiency1 you use for Clubs/Maces, but otherwise I think it's been okay when I've used it?

I've heard reports from some people that it can mess up your spellcasting slots. That might no longer be the case now, with recent improvements... or it might still be the case. I can't say. (EEKeeper doesn't work on MacOS so I can't test  it anyway.) I don't know  what EEKeeper does when you save the file... in fact nobody seems to know what EEKeeper does when you save a file. But it does something to your savegame without telling you. Maybe a Ctrl-R, maybe a wish-rest, nobody seems to know. But it can mess up or remove some applied spells, and the way the semi-spontaneous system tracks your casting slots is by applying spells that bump the values of various proficiency bits up and down.  (Gaining casting slots upon level-up involves bumping the bits' value up permanently; casting spells bumps them down; nd when you rest a spell is applied that cancels the spells that bumped them down. EEKeeper can, maybe, interfere with this system.)

I don't use Extraproficiency1 for clubs/maces; that is actually the vanilla club proficiency. SoB combines maces into the same one, but it is still a vanilla stat.

 

19 hours ago, hippofant said:

Actually, I should add, I do have an actual bug report to make: there are some permanent character effects that you apply - either in this or Scales of Balance not sure - that are reapplied every time the character is removed and added back to the party. In particular, D5_WF11N, D5_WF12N, D5_WF13N, D5_WF21N, D5_WF22N, D5_WF23N, D5_WF24N, and D5_WF25N seem to fire every time and apply their corresponding effects repeatedly.

Those are the group tactics and fighting posture feats; I assume this is with a fighter?  I suppose they could use a 321 effect in them so each instance replaces itself rather than compounding.

 

19 hours ago, hippofant said:

Also the D5??NUSE spell applies a lot of 180 opcodes each time a party member joins. I've had to give each of my characters permanent protection from D5??NUSE spells, or their character files just get insanely bloated with effects and starts really lagging NearInfinity when I try to make edits to their character files.

I haven't been able to figure out how/where the D5??NUSE spells are fired, but it seems like this could be fixed by just making sure they apply protection from themselves so the effects don't duplicate.

That sounds vaguely familiar, but I can't find it any where in my code or my current (massive) modded game.  It's likely a similar solution - just add a self-referencing op321 effect to the spell.  But I don't know what needs fixing.  Can you give me more info?  What do the "??" represent? What mods do you have installed? Which character classes are  having this spell applied?

(Incidentally, how many times do you kick people out and have them re-join?? I find myself letting past members back in once, max, aas I am slowly advancing through the game.)

 

11 hours ago, Hypaspist said:

Thanks! I'll do that, though I'd be missing the one more attack every two rounds (as per kit description), is there a way to fix that as well? Also, if you have Scales of Balance installed as well, does Bladesinger's Mastery mean 4 pips or 3?

If you are using the SoB proficiency system then you don't need to worry about it, because that extra pip will actually give you the extra 1/2 APR. (It occurs to me that there is a bit of a conflict here, since with SoB a Bladesinger's focus weapon will give you +1 APR instead of just +1/2. I need to add compatibility code to remove the extra +1/2 when SoB is installed.

Choosing a focus weapon will advance that weapon's proficiency by 1. You can choose a weapon in which you have no proficiency at all, or you can choose a weapon in which you have maxed out your proficiency. I highly recommend that you do the latter! Since it will allow you to exceed your normal proficiency limit.

 

11 hours ago, Hypaspist said:

 I'd consider adding addtional Bladesinging variants as feat choices

A song of defense a bladesinger could actually negate harm inflicted upon them, while song of victory allowed them to attack with greater power.

When performing a song of celerity a bladesinger was empowered to cast a spell with great quickness, while the song of fury allowed them to make a swift, "arcane strike" against their foe. With the choir of swords a bladesinger could strike out against every opponent near them, with similar blinding speed.

Well the Bladesong is a bard song, albeit a special one, and you can only have one bard song active at any time. (Though the SoD Bard's Hat and the IR Blade of Roses can sort of simulate having a second one active.) The defensive thing is not possible since, "damage threshold"-style effects are not possible in this engine.  Changing it to an AC bonus sort of steps on the toes of MnG Swashbuckling (which Bladesingers can already do) and the Blur Aura (which Bladesingers already get). A song that hastes you sort of steps on the APR bonus from your focus weapon.

I am thinking about adding a new bard aura, similar to a "bladesong" that I used earlier for a very short time. Call it something like a "harmonic strike" aura, which will add extra sonic damage to every melee attack. (There is no sonic damage in this engine, so I used blunt damage to represent "force damage." That makes sense to me, since I figure sonic damage should work against hard/brittle materials similar to blunt force, and it is especially useful in this engine since blunt damage works well against lots of enemies. E.g. this would allow a Blade with dual daggers to go up against a clay golem, etc.)

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2 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

I've heard reports from some people that it can mess up your spellcasting slots. That might no longer be the case now, with recent improvements... or it might still be the case. I can't say. (EEKeeper doesn't work on MacOS so I can't test  it anyway.) I don't know  what EEKeeper does when you save the file... in fact nobody seems to know what EEKeeper does when you save a file. But it does something to your savegame without telling you. Maybe a Ctrl-R, maybe a wish-rest, nobody seems to know. But it can mess up or remove some applied spells, and the way the semi-spontaneous system tracks your casting slots is by applying spells that bump the values of various proficiency bits up and down.  (Gaining casting slots upon level-up involves bumping the bits' value up permanently; casting spells bumps them down; nd when you rest a spell is applied that cancels the spells that bumped them down. EEKeeper can, maybe, interfere with this system.)

Ah. By default, EEKeeper does refresh spells. I disable that option myself because it has caused me problems in the past.

 

2 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

That sounds vaguely familiar, but I can't find it any where in my code or my current (massive) modded game.  It's likely a similar solution - just add a self-referencing op321 effect to the spell.  But I don't know what needs fixing.  Can you give me more info?  What do the "??" represent? What mods do you have installed? Which character classes are  having this spell applied?

(Incidentally, how many times do you kick people out and have them re-join?? I find myself letting past members back in once, max, aas I am slowly advancing through the game.)

So, for example, Fighter/Mages get effects from d5fmnuse.spl, that apply a 180 can't use item code to a whole buncha items. Mage/Thieves get d5mtnuse.spl. Clerics of Mystra get d5_u89.spl. I know how Clerics of Mystra get it applied, it's in their kitlist file (d5clmys.2da). I'm less certain where the multiclasses get it from, but you end up with something like this:

image.thumb.png.3df3c9d585409da1893f057ac512f1fb.png

And it goes on for a very long time.

I do swap NPCs in and out fairly often. Since I'm playing with mods, I like to look at the new NPCs (and possibly steal their gear) and sometimes do their quests. Right now, I'm playing an EET run too, so Imoen necessarily leaves the party and rejoins it thrice (SoD, start of BG2, Spellhold). There are some other NPCs that will happen to too, like Jaheira in her BG2 romance.

Edited by hippofant
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Ah, I found it, it’s part of the revised bards. It is what allows me to preserve item usability differences between traditional M/T’s and the new M/T bards. There... might be a way to fudge it with kit flags, but I’m not sure. Meantime, if you are handy with NI you can add a 321 effect at the beginning of those two spells (d5fmnuse and d5mtnuse) with target=self, timing=1, resource=itself. The next time someone leaves and rejoins, it will be reduced to a single application of each op180 effect. 

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2 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Ah, I found it, it’s part of the revised bards. It is what allows me to preserve item usability differences between traditional M/T’s and the new M/T bards. There... might be a way to fudge it with kit flags, but I’m not sure. Meantime, if you are handy with NI you can add a 321 effect at the beginning of those two spells (d5fmnuse and d5mtnuse) with target=self, timing=1, resource=itself. The next time someone leaves and rejoins, it will be reduced to a single application of each op180 effect. 

That's what I've done, but there's also a d5ctnuse and a d5bnuse by the way. They're not impacting me, but they seem to be similar spells.

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14 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

If you are using the SoB proficiency system then you don't need to worry about it, because that extra pip will actually give you the extra 1/2 APR. (It occurs to me that there is a bit of a conflict here, since with SoB a Bladesinger's focus weapon will give you +1 APR instead of just +1/2. I need to add compatibility code to remove the extra +1/2 when SoB is installed.

Choosing a focus weapon will advance that weapon's proficiency by 1. You can choose a weapon in which you have no proficiency at all, or you can choose a weapon in which you have maxed out your proficiency. I highly recommend that you do the latter! Since it will allow you to exceed your normal proficiency limit.

(...)

Well the Bladesong is a bard song, albeit a special one, and you can only have one bard song active at any time. (Though the SoD Bard's Hat and the IR Blade of Roses can sort of simulate having a second one active.) The defensive thing is not possible since, "damage threshold"-style effects are not possible in this engine.  Changing it to an AC bonus sort of steps on the toes of MnG Swashbuckling (which Bladesingers can already do) and the Blur Aura (which Bladesingers already get). A song that hastes you sort of steps on the APR bonus from your focus weapon.

I am thinking about adding a new bard aura, similar to a "bladesong" that I used earlier for a very short time. Call it something like a "harmonic strike" aura, which will add extra sonic damage to every melee attack. (There is no sonic damage in this engine, so I used blunt damage to represent "force damage." That makes sense to me, since I figure sonic damage should work against hard/brittle materials similar to blunt force, and it is especially useful in this engine since blunt damage works well against lots of enemies. E.g. this would allow a Blade with dual daggers to go up against a clay golem, etc.)

Thanks, I just gave Xan 4 pips in the longswords, that does the trick in Scales!

As for the song suggestions - yes, I knew that Bladesong is a bard song, but what I was suggesting is that the player could either:

1. Pick up Weapon Focus, allowing him/her to attain 4 pips in a chosen weapon (as per Scales of Balance);

2. Pick up a feat that would enhance Bladesong in some way. It doesn't have to be those songs I've posted about. Although what you're proposing sounds a bit like Song of Fury. The new, enhanced Bladesong could, for example:

- Decrease the AC by 1 or 2 points;

- Add Protection from Missles Effect;

- Add Protection from Normal Weapons.

I think that could be potentially an interesting choice to make. Do you want to go more offensive or defensive?

Although in that case it might be a good idea to further enhance Weapon Focus, perhaps by adding a further increase in critical chance?

3. On top of that, if you were planning to work on the kits further, I'd also consider trying to gradually give each kit similar choices at higher levels. But I hope you work on the Beast Lord before that ;)

Edited by Hypaspist
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Confirmed that the failure to memorize Command does not affect any other spells. Basically Command was listed as index #0 in the array of special bard spells, and then when processing them for the semi-spontaneous system the code begins with index #1. So I only needed to change a single digit - probably the easiest fix I've ever done.

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1. Encountered a problem with Haer'dalis - once he returns to the party after the Planar Prison, his Bardic spellcasting appears to not work: He only gets 1 spell each level.

Before he had 4, 4, 3, 2 spell slots.

I assume it's because it's not actually the exact same character, that had previously activated Bardic spellcasting via the innate ability. Is there any fix? I've tried to give him the ability again (via NearInfinity), but it doesn't show.

2. Another thing - is it normal that my Bard spellcasters can only use 1 spell from the last level? They've each have 3 spells from level 4 list and level 5 list (which are, respectively, their highest level spells).

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1 hour ago, Hypaspist said:

1. Encountered a problem with Haer'dalis - once he returns to the party after the Planar Prison, his Bardic spellcasting appears to not work: He only gets 1 spell each level.

Before he had 4, 4, 3, 2 spell slots.

I assume it's because it's not actually the exact same character, that had previously activated Bardic spellcasting via the innate ability. Is there any fix? I've tried to give him the ability again (via NearInfinity), but it doesn't show.

No, I think it's because the spells that grant spellcasting slots are engineered so that they cannot be applied twice, but when a character leaves the party all such effects are removed. When they can't be reapplied, you end up with no slots.

This will probably work:

Grab this hotfix mod repository (click "code" and then "download zip") and move the contents of the MnG 4.9 Bard Slot Fix folder into your game folder. Install the slot fix mod. Load up a save when Haer Dalis is not in the party, then have him join. (Alternatively, load a save when he is in the party, and have him level up.  With this in place, levelling up and joining/re-joining the party should make a bard's casting slots snap to the number they should be. (Note, I might have modified the casting slot table, so this might be slightly different from what they had before... but this will be consistent, and this is what the table will be in MnG 4.9.5 and beyond. In short, they get spells of each spell level one level later than a wizard normally does - so, 1st-level slots at level 2, 2nd-level slots at level 4, etc. up to 6th-level slots at level 13 and 7th-level slots at level 15.)

Probably should remove any spell-slot-adding equipment, save, then install this, then load the save.  It might help.

Note also, this does not affect memorization slots (the slots available on the spellbook page after you use the Prepare Spells ability). If you have a problem with memorization slots, then I have mis-read your post.

If this doesn't work and it totally FUBARs your bards' spell slots, just uninstall the hotfix and load a save from before it was installed. But I think it should work.

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10 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Note also, this does not affect memorization slots (the slots available on the spellbook page after you use the Prepare Spells ability). If you have a problem with memorization slots, then I have mis-read your post.

Sorry, I wasn't clear - Haer'dalis leaving the party due to the game mechanics (Planar Prison) affected his memorization slots. Spontaneous casting still works.

Here are screenshots:

1. Before Planar Prison (him leaving the party due to the story reasons):

Mage 9/Rogue 10

Screens

2. After returning for the Planar Prison:

Screenshots taken from my recent saves, when he's Mage 11/Rogue 12

Screens

So in essence he has far less spells at his disposal. This is what happens when you try to Prepare Spells after he returns:

https://imgur.com/a/JiQSLk5

Now of course the problem is, you can't forgo this quest if you have him in your party - he will eventually leave to do it.

Edited by Hypaspist
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Ah. Great, I made that hotfix for nothing. :rolleyes:

Can you attach the saves for each case? I have a sense of what the problem is, but directly examining his .CRE file would help me nail it down. Once it’s nailed down the fix should be pretty quick and easy. And I’m working on an update to the mod now so it’s good timing. 

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Okay, found it. I'll explain in long-winded fashion, for the sake of posterity.

If you look at your savegame in NI or EEKeeper, you should see effect #4 and effect #5: these apply -1 spell per level for spell levels 1 through 7.  Way down in the effects' "Parent Resource" field you will see they are from a spell called "D5__SLT."  The two effects together give you an overall -2 penalty.  These are here because you installed "Stat-Based Bonus Spells" from TnB or SoB.  That component increases the spells per level by two, and then selectively applies penalties based on your INT score.  MnG bards are not subject to that mod; therefore they do not get any penalties applied; therefore they must get a -2 penalty to offset the general table bonus. The result is to bring them in line with what the spell table would look like without the "Stat-Based Bonus Spells" mod.

Effect #41 is an identical -1 penalty for spell levels 1 through 7; the parent resource for this one is "D500SLT."  This is applied because any kitted mages, such as all of the MnG bards, get an automatic +1 bonus, like specialists.  We want bards to have the same number of spell slots as a non-specialist.

So the game and that other mod are applying a +3 bonus, and we are applying a -3 penalty. So far so good.

At effects #504 through 525, you will see a bunch more spell slot penalties, with the parent resource names "D517SLT" and "D589SLT." These are normal, they are only applied while you are casting spontaneously. They are canceled when you use the Spell Preparation ability. So you can ignore these.

Now, in your post-Planar Prison save, you will see "D5__SLT" applied again in effect #530 and #531, and you will see "D500SLT" applied again in effect #565. This is because the effects were not removed when HD left your party - I think because they were triggered by the QD_Multi system instead of directly by his CLAB file.  However, these effects were re-applied with his other kit abilities when he re-joined the party. I thought the QD_Multi system prevented this from happening... but I guess it is not reliable.  (@argent77 and @Aquadrizzt, we might want to look into this.) With those penalties being applied twice, HD is now subject to an overall -6 penalty...!

So to fix this for yourself: delete effects #530, #531, and #565 from Haer'Dalis in your savegame. Do not remove effect #4, #5, or #41 - we need these three penalties applied once, just not twice.

For me going forward: I will probably shift these penalties into the "initialize bardic spellcasting" ability.  That should entirely fix this issue.  And for those who wonder why the mod needs kit abilities to be initialized manually, this is the answer.

Edited by subtledoctor
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On 2/6/2021 at 2:21 PM, subtledoctor said:

Confirmed that the failure to memorize Command does not affect any other spells. Basically Command was listed as index #0 in the array of special bard spells, and then when processing them for the semi-spontaneous system the code begins with index #1. So I only needed to change a single digit - probably the easiest fix I've ever done.

Classic. It doesn't matter how many years you've been programming, you'll never really escape the good old +/-1 error.

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Guest Sulf

Hey all,

Apologies if these questions are obvious, but I was curious if Hexblade's 'Hex Aura' stacks its luck and saving throw penalties with each round's successful melee attack? From the description I'm also not sure if this melee-applied penalty has a duration or lasts until the foe is dead.

Lastly, the aura describes applying both luck and saving throw penalties. Is it correct that the luck penalty carries its own separate malus for saving throws, making it 2 points for saving throws on melee hit?

Thanks for creating this and your other mods! They've been essentially mandatory for me in these games and I've recommended them to others a bunch.

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