Jump to content

Overlap with SCS & aTweaks spell components


toxin

Recommended Posts

Can anybody else confirm this problem? I am about to install aTweaks and I was thinking of having PnP Undead but after this report I am having second thoughts.

 

You can just uninstall that component it if you run into issues.. I mean aTweaks is the last mod one usually installs so it's no big deal

Link to comment

BWS installs quite a few things after aTweaks, so I've added a conflict rule in BWS for SR and aTweaks' PnP undead until this is fixed.

It's not a SR issue, so there's no reason for it. It's between SCS and aTweaks.

Ah, misunderstood. Which SCS component is conflicting?

Link to comment

 

aTweaks

PnP Undead: v4.50b1

PnP Mephits: v4.50b1

PnP Fey creatures: v4.50b1

PnP Elementals: v4.50b1

These should be fine, albeit I never actually tried them out.

 

They're fine, but Elementals are game-breaking strong. Fey summons are also very, very powerful by the time you get them.

I've been encountering issues with the pnp Elementals and the druid Elemental shapeshift HLA's, in that the in game stats displayed are all messed up. NI seems to show the damage as being unchanged (2d10 + 4), but in game Earth Elemental is shown as doing 6d8 + strength bonus damage! While fire Elemental is showing 1d8. Also I was unable to move my character in Earth Elemental form with it installed, and the stat changes for both forms were off. Removing aTweaks component fixed all the issues. Only other mod installed that touches shapeshifting (to my knowledge) was the uninterruptible shapeshifting from aTweaks. And nothing touching druid/cleric HLA's.

 

On a side note, having SCS improved shapeshifting component with the above would cause the Elemental forms to only be usable once, ever; when selected from the HLA menu you would instantly transform, with the messed up stats, and would have no further options to use the form after changing back to natural. Not sure which of the components is the main cause of conflict, but I removed it as the uninterruptible mod does essentially the same thing.

Link to comment

Also I was unable to move my character in Earth Elemental form with it installed,

 

On a side note, having SCS improved shapeshifting component with the above would cause the Elemental forms to only be usable once, ever; when selected from the HLA menu you would instantly transform, with the messed up stats, and would have no further options to use the form after changing back to natural. Not sure which of the components is the main cause of conflict, but I removed it as the uninterruptible mod does essentially the same thing.

Not being able to move is a bug in some part of BG2EE interacting badly with some part of the shapeshift .cre file. The same thing afflicts my homebrewed greater Air Elemental shapeshift ability. :(

 

As for SCS "Improved" shapeshifting... yeah that's an abomination anyway. The bug it was created to circumvent has long since been fixed in the EEs. Just don't use it.

Link to comment
Removing aTweaks component fixed all the issues.

You mean PnP Elementals: v4.50b1 or the Make druidic shapeshifting uninterruptable tweak?

 

As for SCS "Improved" shapeshifting... yeah that's an abomination anyway.

I have to agree. I don't even remember what was it trying to fix...the dispel issue?

 

Afaik the way I implement shapeshifting abilities within Revisions is the best you can get and completely bug free. Yeah, I'm flattering myself. :D

 

I'll try to go back on KR and release druids to make that aTweak component redundant on Revisions install. ;)

Link to comment

It started out because of the dispel bug, but now people like it because you can go back and forth between werewolf and normal form as fast as you can equip/unequip a weapon (...with tha game pause, in the inventory screen). It's super cheesy.

 

I was even convinced to make shapeshifting at-will in my revised druid kits, so that people will consider using it instead of the SCS component. But now my druids are OP - they have a rat shapeshift that makes them hidden, but using it at will makes it as cheesy as the vanilla Staff of the Magi. I'm going to have to put a timer on it... Shapeshift to any form, once every 5 rounds. Something like that.

 

EDIT - hmm, maybe that's not necessary. Maybe the shapeshift ability could cast a secondary spell via opcode 146 that confers invisibility; and the secondary spell could be flagged as 'non-combat.' So you could use this from safety, to bypass enemies, but you couldn't cheese it during battle. I wonder if that would work...

Link to comment

 

Removing aTweaks component fixed all the issues.

You mean PnP Elementals: v4.50b1 or the Make druidic shapeshifting uninterruptable tweak?

 

As for SCS "Improved" shapeshifting... yeah that's an abomination anyway.

I have to agree. I don't even remember what was it trying to fix...the dispel issue?

 

Afaik the way I implement shapeshifting abilities within Revisions is the best you can get and completely bug free. Yeah, I'm flattering myself. :D

 

I'll try to go back on KR and release druids to make that aTweak component redundant on Revisions install. ;)

 

The PnP Elementals; uninterruptible shapeshifting seems to have no negative effects.

 

And yeah I don't really like the SCS one either, just been using BWS to install and somehow always seem to miss unchecking it. :mellow:

Link to comment

As for SCS "Improved" shapeshifting... yeah that's an abomination anyway. The bug it was created to circumvent has long since been fixed in the EEs. Just don't use it.

Necromantically catching up on threads I've missed:

 

It isn't actually intended to circumvent any bug. For what it's worth (and tastes clearly vary!) it's mainly intended to circumvent the time cost of shapeshifting. Given the choice between (a) spending the whole battle in animal form, and (b) getting to use spells, pretty much any druid will choose the latter. So if shapeshifting is to be used in combat in BG(2), it's going to have to be mixed in with other actions. But now the time cost becomes pretty painful - every shapeshift, *in either direction*, costs you an opportunity to cast a spell. The druid who casts Flame Strike, shapeshifts, attacks for a few seconds, shapeshifts back, and heals an ally, has spent four rounds on it. Most combats are pretty much over after four rounds. With this version, druids can cast a spell, then attack without any time cost, and can change back at will. (It's many years since it was coded and I should probably have a look to see if there's an alternative way to get the same effect - I'm lukewarm on "symbolic paws" in themselves.)

Link to comment

Apologies for the rather stark language... the DM in me just never liked the idea of a mechanism departing from the way every other ability in the game works. It's the same reason I hate the Staff of the Magi which is more like the "Staff of Backstabbing."

 

My own recent druid mod gives at-will shapeshifting, and makes it instantaneous. I could even see adding an instantaneous aura cleansing effect to the "resume human form" ability so you can cast right away. I have no problem with that. Unfortunately, I have no facility for scripting the AI to take advantage of the abilities...

Link to comment

Apologies for the rather stark language... the DM in me just never liked the idea of a mechanism departing from the way every other ability in the game works. It's the same reason I hate the Staff of the Magi which is more like the "Staff of Backstabbing."

You can't backstab with it. :)

 

As per druids, frankly, I'd simply make them cast spells while they're shapeshifted. The idea is already used (either BG2Tweaks "revised shapeshifter" or Tactics mod has it)..

Link to comment

Then why ever be in human form? I don't want to play a bear (though apparently you can do that now in EE).

 

It would be great if you could cast low-level spells while shapeshifted, but had to revert to human form to cast high-level spells. But not possible AFAIK.

 

If I want a tank who can cast, I can play a F/D. For me, I try to let (one of) the shapeshift forms be a moderately decent tank - not as good as a fighter, but better than a cleric. Or stay in weak human form, and cast spells. Being able to do either/or adds meaningful flexibility to the party, without needing to enable casting while shapeshifted.

 

I'm also trying to give shapeshift forms more utility abilities instead of just "use your claws." Like a rat form that gives three rounds of invisibility (and then the enemy can spot you). As an at-will ability, that's handy and unique. But I'm struggling to come up with more features that give you utility in combat, with being just about fighting. My wolf forms have high movement rate; that's been... slightly useful. Not very.

Link to comment

Then why ever be in human form? I don't want to play a bear (though apparently you can do that now in EE).

 

It would be great if you could cast low-level spells while shapeshifted, but had to revert to human form to cast high-level spells. But not possible AFAIK.

I think a more simple solution would work. Paw-like stuff could slow down your casting time, so you could have a reason to be in human form. (better casting times)

Link to comment

As per druids, frankly, I'd simply make them cast spells while they're shapeshifted. The idea is already used (either BG2Tweaks "revised shapeshifter" or Tactics mod has it)..

I deliberately avoided that.

 

Then why ever be in human form? I don't want to play a bear (though apparently you can do that now in EE).

Exactly.
Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...