bob_veng Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 The North is overflowing with uber enchanted weaponry, it grows on trees and under rocks... ...makes sense since IWD is an action oriented game. In the context of EET however, this stands in contrast to the rest of the world where you have to try a bit harder to find great weapons, and there are other disparities in item design and placement: - in IWD there are random loot tables containing unique and semi-unique enchanted items while in BG there isn't such a thing - these "loot table weapons", which are dominant in IWD, have very straightforward properties, often concentrating on APR, brute force or brute defense in the form of DR...overall this actually gives them a kind of an unfair edge over more subtly designed BG weapons - as a rule, they lack a unique sounding name, a description & a unique icon, while in BG, weapons of comparable power always have some degree of flavor So I meekly suggest making a component that removes about 3/4 of random loot locations from the North and places them in various well-considered locations througout EET. This would create a geographic uniformity of random loot and go a long way to soften these contrasts. ...my choice of locations would be: primarily dragons (original dragons' hoards are not very realistic )...some weaker selections i'd place in various less popular areas such as the isle of balduran and beamdog NPC quest areas, and other places that feel like they could be more rewarding to explore or in easy to miss spots (transient areas during the spellhold test). Link to comment
Jarno Mikkola Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 - these "loot table weapons", which are dominant in IWD, have very straightforward properties, often concentrating on APR, brute force or brute defense in the form of DR...overall this actually gives them a kind of an unfair edge over more subtly designed BG weapons Give me a list of 5 magical items with each of those properties and I will believe in you. Items that are not in BG2. Perhaps, to sound a little less arrogant idiot... you could make a direct suggestion for a list of items you see unfitting and we'll see what comes out of that, make sure it contains the following: Item name, location, things you find offending the greater balance, and suggested change. The 3/4rds of items sound a lot, but considering the IWD adventure itself is from zero to hero all on it's own, the items reflected that. Yes, we can make balancing things to it, but ... you might not want to sound like an common ass hole while marginalizing of the original point of the adventure. The SCS didn't remove any of the +1 items either, it made them master work... balance wise it was a smart move... if you consider it that way, but it erased none of them. And you might want to play the game with the changes you made to test it out... and do not use specially build team with a tweak in mind, but use a vanilla BG1 characters as your party members, this is in case it's not clear that that's what the player is kinda expected to do. After what ever the items tweaks, there's also the XP amount to consider and there's good mods that have nothing to do with the EET itself that can adjust these facts. If you find a good one to suggest, I would like you hear your opinion on the matter, as you are free to make a suggestion ... Link to comment
bob_veng Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 Well uhhm hi. I'm not sure how to respond to some of your criticism so i'll stick to the core issue here First of all it seems that we're on the same page. You said: The 3/4rds of items sound a lot, but considering the IWD adventure itself is from zero to hero all on it's own, the items reflected that. Yes, we can make balancing things to it... ...and that's basically the whole point. But it also seems that you've missed the fact that i'm only talking about random loot table locations and not about individual items. The issue is really not so much with them, but with the abundance of random loot in general. Also, I'm only talking about those locations (chests, coffins, drops...) and not about normal, determinate loot. So the change, from a technical standpoint would absolutely not be to mess with these tables, or with the items, it would just be moving the tables, assigning them elsewhere in the world. I know that 3/4 of random loot locations sounds a lot, but even if you removed *all* of them, IWD locations would still have enough findable goodies when you compare it to other BG dungeons. The exact number is not important. I can't drudge through IWD item lists right now (i'll dig up some items later), but here's one from the top of my head: Bastard Sword +3: Defender --- THACO +3, AC +2 bonus, 10% slashing, piercing, crushing, missile res., +1 saves | location: tiers of the dead coffin, and it's random Have in mind, i don't have anything against this sword. It's great. edit: IWD uses generic descriptors in weapon names to describe what they're about Most common suffixes are "of (greater/lesser/*) phasing", "defender" and "of action" Most Phasing and Defender items if i remember correctly are random. Defender weapons are very good in the offhand and there's a ton of them. There's at least one random Morning Star +4: Defender which is one of the best weapons in all of EET. Guaranteed Morning Star +4 Defenders can also be found but only in HoW if i remember well. At least a half of "of Action" weapons are random. Some give +1 apr and some give +1 DEX. It's inconsistent as regarding the enchantment level. There are also some items that grant +1 apr that don't have the "of action" suffix, and some are random while some are not. I remember that Fast Flail is random and it's a dreadful weapon because it's a speed blunt weapon. edit2: what i'm proposing is basically the new generation item randomizer that has been enabled by bringing in IWD content - every "determinate item" sits where it's designed to, but on top of that, you still find, in abundance, powerful, game-changing, random items in various places (and not just in one region of the world). it's a must, no? Link to comment
CamDawg Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 - these "loot table weapons", which are dominant in IWD, have very straightforward properties, often concentrating on APR, brute force or brute defense in the form of DR...overall this actually gives them a kind of an unfair edge over more subtly designed BG weaponsGive me a list of 5 magical items with each of those properties and I will believe in you. Items that are not in BG2. Are you kidding me? IWD is notorious for +APR stuff: Bastard Sword of Action +1, Long word of Action +4, Morning Star of Action +4, Fast Flail +2, Messenger of Sseth, Ring of Reckless Action, Ring of the Warrior Thief, Valiant... that's from 30 seconds in NI. The Long Sword of Action +4 is extra bonus crazy. As if +1 APR isn't enough, it adds +1 AC and 15% slashing resistance. You swap out Blackrazor for that in BG2 and that genie's dead before he's done talking. Link to comment
bob_veng Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 @Jarno Mikkola The reason why i can't list you all of the relevant items is because they're often duplicated. You would need to look at the loot tables to locate all of their instances. The above rough outline of some weapons doesn't mean that any of them are "unfitting". The thing is - it's repetitive and bunched together in the context of the EET and stands in sharp contrast to the rest of the game. I hope we understand each other. I don't want to disparage IWD, it's great. Maybe my tone sounded a sardonic but i was just trying to exaggerate a bit, for laughs. Link to comment
bob_veng Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 bump (sorry!) just to let you all know, i still think this is a very good idea lol Link to comment
Lightbringer Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I concur! I'm a big fan of keeping all those nifty items, but "spreading the love" a little to the rest of the sword coast. Having some bonus interesting weaponry pop up in unexpected locations down south would make for a very nice surprise. When it comes to the idea that "The North is overflowing with uber enchanted weaponry, it grows on trees and under rocks..", well, I have to wonder .... did the person who said that ever play BG2? It seems to me that the space South of Baldur's Gate, and North of Amn is just rather impoverished, comparatively. Link to comment
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