[Poll] XP Cap for different parts of the story

[Bill Bisco]

I still do not understand the risk. How are you able to go to level 41 if the xp table ends at level 40?

 

I will reluctantly agree that changing the 8 million xp cap is counter to design intent in ToB. Some additional notes.

 

1.The endgame is not balanced. So balance arguments are not great.

2. Allowing Dual Class and Multiclass chars to continue leveling is not a big deal. It takes forever as it is to get high levels.

3. There is no xp cap in regular D&D at all. The xp cap from the developers is an abberation.

4. An EETweaks option built-in to remove xp caps would be welcome as many will want it.

5. Any ability to continue showing xp is good. It is exactly what Runescape does. Max skill level is 99, but you can continue gaining xp up to 200 million.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I still do not understand the risk. How are you able to go to level 41 if the xp table ends at level 40?

That's actually good point, in vanilla BG2, the tables( yes, specifically the xplevel.2da) ended at level 41, breaking the chars, while in BG2EE v2.0, tehy end in 40... although the druids table is weird to say the least.

 

With this, I can see no reason to not remove the cap... expect the fact that this will tweak the original game, which will to me, is not really the purpose of the mod, similar to the likes of say NPC mods and (up to a point the) BG2Fixpack.

[gel87]

I usually play 1-3 chars max, xp cap is the first thing to remove.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I usually play 1-3 chars max, xp cap is the first thing to remove.

Are you sure you do not install a mod that ALSO will let you to level up beyond the level 41 ?

See the XP cap is not the only detail in the mod ... like the Tweak Anniversary(or BG2 Tweaks). In which case it's a tweak mod, which then SHALL never be in the primary component of the EET, but much preferred to be in EET Tweaks/TA/EoU, other mods.

[subtledoctor]

Removing the XP cap is a rule tweak. It should be an option, a component of a tweak mod. EET is simply a mod that puts all of the games together in a seamless experience. We should minimize the number of tweaks included as mandatory components.

 

There are a lot of votes for removing the XP cap but honestly I think the poll is fundamentally flawed; a lot of those are really people saying "I prefer to remove the XP cap when I play." Since that fits perfectly well with the first option, those votes should be shifted to the first option in the poll.

 

The third option should really be phrased like "I want there to be no XP cap for anyone, and people who want to play with the caps should have no way to do so." That's what the third option really means, and honestly, it's kind of a dick move to vote for that.

 

Frankly this shouldn't be a poll at all. It's really asking whether there should be more options for more people, or fewer options and fewer people getting what they want. Why would you even put something like that up for a vote??

 

More options > fewer options, literally and figuratively.

[subtledoctor]

For the above reasons, I recommend removing xp caps entirely for EET as a default. Implementing XP Caps as install options would be fine.

 

I might agree, IF it were promised that EET Tweaks would have a "Restore XP Caps" option. But I have not seen any mention of that. And AFAIK it's much easier to remove the caps than to add them back in. Therefore, the way to do this that would satisfy the most players is to simply leave in the XP caps for each campaign, and have a simple EET Tweaks option to remove them.

[bob_veng]

i agree with your logic and i changed my vote to "XP cap for whole EET at 8M like in BGT"

 

i just want to add that no serious RPG ever had multiple, sequential xp caps in a single campaign. to create this situation in EET would be creating an abomination. it would render EET incomplete in it's mission of connecting the all games into one game.

 

normally, i'm not a massive fan of removing xp caps. i think that only the BG:EE cap is a very bad one, now with the release of SoD.

A completionist full party run (without rest spamming, without grinding) through BG+TotSC+SoD gives around 650k xp.

 

since the cap is at 500k i think that this cap can be safely removed.

[Grammarsalad]

I understood the voting to establish the default while the other options will be available via tweaks

[subtledoctor]

Oh don't get me wrong I would remove the cap as well. I'm just saying, EET should change as little as possible and offer rule changes as install options.

[Jarno Mikkola]

i just want to add that no serious RPG ever had multiple, sequential xp caps in a single campaign.

I wish I could live in the dream world you live in brother, but as of now, could you please say what the Gold Box RP games are ? Yes, technically they aren't a single campaign, but neither are the BG's either, hello they each have their own subtitle.

Cause I specifically remember that the Elves were not able to obtain a higher than a set level at a set class, while the humans were able to and so on and on.

Also if you haven't player the Dawn of War 2 campaign and the Chaos Rising, then you have missed this too. Yes, it's a RTS game, just like the BG games are.

 

... EET should change as little as possible and offer rule changes as install options.

Which is what the BGT-weidu did too.

And I will also, but that's probably a different Tweak mod that what most of you will. Which is why the vanilla EET should stay as much to vanilla BG2EE as possible.

[Selis]

Having an installation option for a cap never hurts. Personally I always remove it.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Having an installation option for a cap never hurts. Personally I always remove it.

Yeah, but the thing to consider is... should that option be in the EET or in the EET Tweaks ?

 

And considering that it's a tweak, will naturally place it in the second.

If you consider that removing it also sets things off like capping the unspecific levels to specific ones. What am I talking about... well if you look at the end of your vanilla (aka unmodified) BG2EE game, it likely contains level 41 XP amount for a mage to level up. Nice thing yeah, except that it's not a mage if you level them up to a 41 level cause they can't cast spells after. As in, the vanilla game(when you remove the xp cap but do nothing else) doesn't contain the spell amounts at the level 41 mage can cast as they won't ever reach that level... well except the exemption which is 0 spells per level.

So would you rather have a game that works as intended or a tweaked cap that cheeses your whole experience cause it was left into untweaked condition ?

[gel87]

 

 

I usually play 1-3 chars max, xp cap is the first thing to remove.

Are you sure you do not install a mod that ALSO will let you to level up beyond the level 41 ?

See the XP cap is not the only detail in the mod ... like the Tweak Anniversary(or BG2 Tweaks). In which case it's a tweak mod, which then SHALL never be in the primary component of the EET, but much preferred to be in EET Tweaks/TA/EoU, other mods.

I just use the one called override which now contains sod file as well. However there is a bug in that one that dissalow Me to make new chars in soa. They simply die xD had same issues on a erlier version as well...

 

Well, have xp cap removal in a tweak is fine with Me, but it should then be a clean description how and What to install.

 

Finding bg mods can be hard, looking true 6 different sites, with xx version and comments on all in catagorys not understandable for people new to mods. I had huge problems when i started with such.

 

If he put all files/link in 1 post with a short description in a spoiler or something for each, number for which u should install first, second etc and a mandatory/optional comment beside new players including myself would have overwiev of What and how to install to meet their needs.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I just use the one called override which now contains sod file as well. However there is a bug in that one that dissalow Me to make new chars in soa. They simply die xD had same issues on a erlier version as well...

If you remember, that was from a mod that I have never used, or even seen. Not the BG2 Tweaks or the Tweaks Anniversary that should be be in near universal usage todays.

 

Finding bg mods can be hard, looking through 6 different sites, with xx version and comments on all in catagorys not understandable for people new to mods. I had huge problems when i started with such.

This is why there's community build moding tools, like the BiG World Setup. Or you could do the daring thing and install just one mod. It's all up to the user.

But to be concise, we shouldn't promote making a content changing tweaks to be within the pimary mod, but in a tweakpack, and the TA is trying to be, and thus should also be the universal, and it's already coded so why change a thing.

[Selis]

 

Having an installation option for a cap never hurts. Personally I always remove it.

Yeah, but the thing to consider is... should that option be in the EET or in the EET Tweaks ?

 

And considering that it's a tweak, will naturally place it in the second.

If you consider that removing it also sets things off like capping the unspecific levels to specific ones. What am I talking about... well if you look at the end of your vanilla (aka unmodified) BG2EE game, it likely contains level 41 XP amount for a mage to level up. Nice thing yeah, except that it's not a mage if you level them up to a 41 level cause they can't cast spells after. As in, the vanilla game(when you remove the xp cap but do nothing else) doesn't contain the spell amounts at the level 41 mage can cast as they won't ever reach that level... well except the exemption which is 0 spells per level.

So would you rather have a game that works as intended or a tweaked cap that cheeses your whole experience cause it was left into untweaked condition ?

 

 

I'm with Bill Bisco in this case, there is no experience cap in D&D by the rules, so there shouldn't be in EET. In which case I do feel that EET Tweaks having a capping option (especially different caps for different portions), will be appreciated by players that do not with to gain too much in power in the BG1 part of the game.

 

As for your question: I think the game should contain the proper tables, even if that's outside the scope of EET. I do not think the game should have a cap, whether or not the tables are included (There are mods available that addressed these issues - I think BG2Tweakpack has functionality that deals with spell and HLA tables, and Weimer's Spell-50 mod (archaic)).

 

But like Jarno Mikkola said, the functionality is already in EET Tweaks, why divert your currently limited time to this?