Does anyone know the current status of the BWS?

[AL|EN]

Anyone can download BWS/BWFixpack archive and work on his local copy to try things and see how it's done, to do his experiments and preform testing in the same way as Quiet did (when he create this thread, he was posted his local BWS copy, not BitBucket Download link) Then, I can add 'write rights' to online repository for anyone who is interested. The BWS/BWFixpack infrastructure is nothing more than two online git repositories, two forum threads and access to email/twitter. No custom web servers/services/forums etc. I can provide as much help as I can, but the main 'investments' has to be done by the person who want to contribute to the project.

 

The Rome wasn't build during one day, but you have to want to use a shovel and dig first hole in the ground before trying to make Colosseum.

[lynx]

But nobody wants to build a colosseum yet, they care about their own villae. However you did change your mind, which is all that matters.

[Grammarsalad]

This may be a stupid question, but I've never really looked at bws. But, in the interests of maintaining my own villae:

 

As a modder, is there anything different i need to do to make sure that my mods are compatible with bws? That is, is there anything i need to do other than doing my best to ensure that my mods are compatible with other mods? Bws isn't a mod, itself, right? I have to admit that i don't quite know what it is

[argent77]

I don't think there is much you have to consider in your mods to make them more compatible with BWS. Well, BWS doesn't really like manual inputs (via READLN) because it is difficult to automate. I don't know if there is more.

However, you should avoid using hosting services which require extra steps to download files (such as Mediafire). Github had this issue too some time ago, but it appears to be fixed by now.

[Jarno Mikkola]

This may be a stupid question, but I've never really looked at bws. But, in the interests of maintaining my own villae:

 

As a modder, is there anything different i need to do to make sure that my mods are compatible with bws? That is, is there anything i need to do other than doing my best to ensure that my mods are compatible with other mods? Bws isn't a mod, itself, right? I have to admit that i don't quite know what it is

Well, there's also the BWS Fixpack, that you can check and see if there's any patches to your mods .tp* files. Some of the reasoning can be found in the _BWP fixes.txt -file, some is missing.

[Creepin]

And there's also this thread you might wish to use if you want support for your mod to be added to BWS. Well at least you could when there were someone around to respond to requests there... :sigh:

[Grammarsalad]

 

This may be a stupid question, but I've never really looked at bws. But, in the interests of maintaining my own villae:

 

As a modder, is there anything different i need to do to make sure that my mods are compatible with bws? That is, is there anything i need to do other than doing my best to ensure that my mods are compatible with other mods? Bws isn't a mod, itself, right? I have to admit that i don't quite know what it is

Well, there's also the BWS Fixpack, that you can check and see if there's any patches to your mods .tp* files. Some of the reasoning can be found in the _BWP fixes.txt -file, so is missing.

Not so far. Thanks

[subtledoctor]

And there's also this thread you might wish to use if you want support for your mod to be added to BWS. Well at least you could when there were someone around to respond to requests there... :sigh:

But as long as the mod's structure (number/order of components) doesn't change, then it's not a problem. I've updated my mods several times recently to fix some bugs, and BWS automatically grabs the best version for players. The work to make this possible for BWS over the last year or so (I think mostly by AL|EN and Lynx?) has really been excellent.

 

So to answer Grammarsalad, if the mod is on Github and it is structurally stable, you really don't need to worry much about it. (That's why I put DESIGNATED component numbers on the various install options in Faiths & Powers.)

[Grammarsalad]

 

And there's also this thread you might wish to use if you want support for your mod to be added to BWS. Well at least you could when there were someone around to respond to requests there... :sigh:

But as long as the mod's structure (number/order of components) doesn't change, then it's not a problem. I've updated my mods several times recently to fix some bugs, and BWS automatically grabs the best version for players. The work to make this possible for BWS over the last year or so (I think mostly by AL|EN and Lynx?) has really been excellent.

 

So to answer Grammarsalad, if the mod is on Github and it is structurally stable, you really don't need to worry much about it. (That's why I put DESIGNATED component numbers on the various install options in Faiths & Powers.)

Thanks, subtle. I remember hearing about this before--from you and others, I think--but it doesn't hurt to be sure.

 

...so, what if the number of components changes?

[Jarno Mikkola]

With DESI... the component numbers stay, so the BWS that was programmed to install the 1000 component from Fixpack can still install it from version to version... if you add more components, the BWS needs to be updated to use them, too, but that doesn't matter for most parts as the same components can still be installed from version to version. And the compatibility stays the same... unlike if you just randomly switch the component orders, as the randomization would be reflected.

[AL|EN]

@Grammarsalad

 

Since the way how is currently designed, when mod authors change components numbers (for good reasons!) it's a nightmare for maintainers:

 

- get the new component list, save it using modTP2Name;xxxx

- for every language, extract description because it might get slight yet essential updates to the way how components are described

- copy BWS custom information ( like "EE 2.0+" or "Warrning:..") to the component description again

- compare old component numbers with new one and set/copy corresponding "Selection" (recommended, standard, tactics, expert ) choices for those components

- search for all conflicts for the mod inside this file: https://bitbucket.org/BigWorldSetup/bigworldsetup/raw/master/BiG%20World%20Setup/Config/BWP/Game.ini and change old component numbers into new one

- lucky for us, the step above also gives the new "component list" for installation order but it has to be placed again inside 4 files if the mod support BG1EE,BG2EE/EET,BG2 and for eg IWD1EE

- at the end, you have to preform clean installation of all mod components for each game

 

The example of the worst-case scenario is new Eldritch Magic 1.68 vs Eldritch Magic 1.65: Abdel Adrian was not able to provide update so BWS still have old component numbers: "Congenio's Pebble Collection" is 10 (1.65) instead of 1 (1.68) thus making Eldritch Magic mod broken for BWS install.

 

Before you ask, it can be designed in a better way, but the solution is outside of the BWS reach so for old BWS that's the way it is.

[Grammarsalad]

@Grammarsalad

 

Since the way how is currently designed, when mod authors change components numbers (for good reasons!) it's a nightmare for maintainers:

 

- get the new component list, save it using modTP2Name;xxxx

- for every language, extract description because it might get slight yet essential updates to the way how components are described

- copy BWS custom information ( like "EE 2.0+" or "Warrning:..") to the component description again

- compare old component numbers with new one and set/copy corresponding "Selection" (recommended, standard, tactics, expert ) choices for those components

- search for all conflicts for the mod inside this file: https://bitbucket.org/BigWorldSetup/bigworldsetup/raw/master/BiG%20World%20Setup/Config/BWP/Game.ini and change old component numbers into new one

- lucky for us, the step above also gives the new "component list" for installation order but it has to be placed again inside 4 files if the mod support BG1EE,BG2EE/EET,BG2 and for eg IWD1EE

- at the end, you have to preform clean installation of all mod components for each game

 

The example of the worst-case scenario is new Eldritch Magic 1.68 vs Eldritch Magic 1.65: Abdel Adrian was not able to provide update so BWS still have old component numbers: "Congenio's Pebble Collection" is 10 (1.65) instead of 1 (1.68) thus making Eldritch Magic mod broken for BWS install.

 

Before you ask, it can be designed in a better way, but the solution is outside of the BWS reach so for old BWS that's the way it is.

Awesome. I'll have to go though this step by step to be sure I get it.

 

One more request: Could I have an example of a 'best-case scenario'? I.e. a nice simple example where this was done right?

[AL|EN]

Awesome. I'll have to go though this step by step to be sure I get it.

 

I don't know what you actually think/want to do but the steps which I describe are only for the situation where there is already a mod added via "Mod Request Template" and new mod version has changed component numbers. Those tasks can be done only at the BWS side by maintainers or mod authors which would learn how BWS works.

 

 

 

One more request: Could I have an example of a 'best-case scenario'? I.e. a nice simple example where this was done right?

So far, the best effort for contributing into BWS was made by AncientCowboy EEUITweaks, Argent77 Golem Construction for Spellcasters, and subtledoctor (detailed conflicts and install order of the components, attempt to use PullRequest in order to update BWS directly by mod author). The problem with BWS is that in order for a mod author to directly contribute all stuff which is required by BWS, he has to know everything which BWS maintainer have to know. I had several ideas how to make things better mor modders and maintainers but due to many related things, they are still only a design ideas, sadly. Still, those filled templates have helped us greatly and I'm grateful for the support.

 

But before new BWS maintainers will voluntarily takeover the 'updating' tasks, there is no point for requesting new mods/providing updates.

[subtledoctor]

Grammar, to use Faiths & Powers as an example, each of the four install options has a DESIGNATED component number that is designed to be permanent, so BWS should have no problem with them. I think the only issue will be with install option #3: "choose kits individually." Adding new kits involves adding new components here; if BWS is not updated, it will not see those new kits and players will not have an option to install them.

 

BUT as long as the other component #s don't change, they will stay available. So the result will be a mod with incomplete functionality, but (importantly) not broken functionality. And install options 1 & 2 will still work fine and install all the new kits.

 

I can't fault Eldritch magic too much, it took me several tries before I settled on a nice stable component t structure in my mods. The trick is to realize the value of DESIGNATED early on, and realize that components need miners are completely arbitrary - #1 can be "10,000," #2 can be "200,000," etc. - so you can created a simple structure with plenty of room to grow in the middle.

 

(I have enough OCD that I even link my .tra refs to component numbers... slightly crazy yet at the same time, satisfying.)

[Grammarsalad]

 

Awesome. I'll have to go though this step by step to be sure I get it.

 

I don't know what you actually think/want to do but the steps which I describe are only for the situation where there is already a mod added via "Mod Request Template" and new mod version has changed component numbers. Those tasks can be done only at the BWS side by maintainers or mod authors which would learn how BWS works.

 

 

 

One more request: Could I have an example of a 'best-case scenario'? I.e. a nice simple example where this was done right?

So far, the best effort for contributing into BWS was made by AncientCowboy EEUITweaks, Argent77 Golem Construction for Spellcasters, and subtledoctor (detailed conflicts and install order of the components, attempt to use PullRequest in order to update BWS directly by mod author). The problem with BWS is that in order for a mod author to directly contribute all stuff which is required by BWS, he has to know everything which BWS maintainer have to know. I had several ideas how to make things better mor modders and maintainers but due to many related things, they are still only a design ideas, sadly. Still, those filled templates have helped us greatly and I'm grateful for the support.

 

But before new BWS maintainers will voluntarily takeover the 'updating' tasks, there is no point for requesting new mods/providing updates.

 

 

Grammar, to use Faiths & Powers as an example, each of the four install options has a DESIGNATED component number that is designed to be permanent, so BWS should have no problem with them. I think the only issue will be with install option #3: "choose kits individually." Adding new kits involves adding new components here; if BWS is not updated, it will not see those new kits and players will not have an option to install them.

 

BUT as long as the other component #s don't change, they will stay available. So the result will be a mod with incomplete functionality, but (importantly) not broken functionality. And install options 1 & 2 will still work fine and install all the new kits.

 

I can't fault Eldritch magic too much, it took me several tries before I settled on a nice stable component t structure in my mods. The trick is to realize the value of DESIGNATED early on, and realize that components need miners are completely arbitrary - #1 can be "10,000," #2 can be "200,000," etc. - so you can created a simple structure with plenty of room to grow in the middle.

 

(I have enough OCD that I even link my .tra refs to component numbers... slightly crazy yet at the same time, satisfying.)

Okay, got it (more or less)

Yeah, I was thinking about install option 3. I'm sure that we'll be adding new kits to it. I thought that there was something that I could do on my end to make it automatically integrates into BWS. Warnings it is, then.