SR V4 Beta 15

[Bartimaeus]

@Jarno: I already use that, but there is, as far as I can tell, no incompatibility. A level 15 swashbuckler with two proficiency points put into Short Swords gets 3/2 ApR with a short sword, then dual-class to mage and level up to 16, re-equip the short sword, still gets 3/2. Then cast Tenser's - you now get 5/2, which is correct: base 1 + 1/2 profiency + 1 from Tenser's. The type 1 ApR opcode from Tensers only overwrites other type 1 ApR opcodes. So no problem here, but it would be a problem for launchers/shapeshifts that set your ApR with type 1, such as bows, daggers, darts.

 

@Huo: You're correct - the incorrect effect is specified for specifically sorcerers. Regardless of level, it applies the A (3/2 ApR) effect instead of the B (2 ApR). Thanks.

 

@kjeron: Yeah, this seems more of a concern. SR could fix this by deleting the set type 1 opcodes and replacing them with additive type 0 opcodes, but it would immediately break again with any mod-added weapons installed after SR, such as IR (but also a lot more since SR is installed fairly early into most install orders). I could easily fix that for IRR, but that doesn't solve it for everyone, obviously. Does anyone have other proposed solutions?

 

(e): Wait, I'm a real dummy: just go the other way around by changing Tenser's to add a half or full attack instead of setting to 3/2 or 2. Okay, done. Also probably want to prevent shapeshifts (and prevent Shapeshifted users from using Tenser's) in order to prevent ApR abuse, I suppose? Also, overlooked is the fact that you can cast Tenser's multiple times, and its bonuses added up cumulatively. Whoops, .

Edited August 27, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[HuoYuhao]

(e): Wait, I'm a real dummy: just go the other way around by changing Tenser's to add a half or full attack instead of setting to 3/2 or 2. Okay, done. Also probably want to prevent shapeshifts (and prevent Shapeshifted users from using Tenser's) in order to prevent ApR abuse, I suppose? Also, overlooked is the fact that you can cast Tenser's multiple times, and its bonuses added up cumulatively. Whoops, .

 

Do you have access to the official version to make changes or are the changes for SR revised?

[Rebel_00]

I am really enjoying the mod so far (even when enemies summon shadows) but I've noticed there are a few errors/discrepancies with the spell descriptions and the component to update NPC spell books.

 

For example Haste AoE states "1 creature" but the description and in game effect applies across an area.

Improved Haste then refers to the Lv.3 spell as only affecting 1 creature.

 

Also some of the spell levels in NPC's spell descriptions don't match the page/level they're on - eg. Mestil's Acid Sheath for Imoen & Nalia.

 

Is this normal behaviour in v15 or a faulty install/mod incompatibility?

If this is a minor bug, where is the best place to report these?

[Bartimaeus]

@Huo: No, I do not - but since a number of people have been asking for it, I'm probably going to release an SR Revised (a la IR Revised) add-on so that people at least have the option of having this stuff fixed.

 

@Rebel: Yep, the Hastes were changed by subtledoctor in the latest patch, but he did not update their description. As for the incorrect spells in spellbooks, they are disabled versions of spells that essentially act as backups for the AI (in the event they're trying to use the original spell resource) that are supposed to be removed by the "Update spellbooks" component, but I have also noticed that it doesn't always happen - something I have to look into yet. I think it's currently even worse on the EEs from what I tested - there are a number of copies of arcane spells at the wrong levels that you can select as a sorcerer during level-up or as a mage/bard during character creation.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[subtledoctor]

I didn't change anything - I don't have access to SR to make changes. I think changing Haste back to AoE was done by kreso 1) in response to player requests; and 2) to aid the AI (maybe SCS?) which uses Haste expecting it to be sn AoE buff.

 

BUT I have a Github and I can fork b15 and host a version with fixes until the official version catches up - IF that is okay with the G3 folks. I don't mean this as offense, but I'd much rather have a temporary-but-normal alternate version of the mod than a set of fixes tacked on after the fact.

 

All I would need is 1) permission from Mike or Camdawg or someone; 2) an easy-to-digest list of things that need updating - I don't have time to hunt down info in forum posts, I suggest creating a new thread like "updates that are needed for b16;" and 3) some patience, as my free time is a bit unreliable at the moment.

[Mike1072]

If you have bugfixes, feel free to submit them to the main repo and we can release a new version.

[Bartimaeus]

I didn't change anything - I don't have access to SR to make changes. I think changing Haste back to AoE was done by kreso 1) in response to player requests; and 2) to aid the AI (maybe SCS?) which uses Haste expecting it to be sn AoE buff.

 

BUT I have a Github and I can fork b15 and host a version with fixes until the official version catches up - IF that is okay with the G3 folks. I don't mean this as offense, but I'd much rather have a temporary-but-normal alternate version of the mod than a set of fixes tacked on after the fact.

 

All I would need is 1) permission from Mike or Camdawg or someone; 2) an easy-to-digest list of things that need updating - I don't have time to hunt down info in forum posts, I suggest creating a new thread like "updates that are needed for b16;" and 3) some patience, as my free time is a bit unreliable at the moment.

 

Oops. Yes, kreso.

 

That would be ideal, and as with IRR, anything from my fixes to make the official version better is more than encouraged. It's a little easier than with IRR, too, thankfully - for the most part. I am not sure whether I should release SRR, then. Maybe some people would still want it, and it would still be useful to have public? Guess it would depend on the progress of a new version.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[subtledoctor]

On the assumption that creating a release would involve a nontrivial amount of work, the effort might be better spent simply documenting the changes. With a list to work from, we can more easily get the updates done. Then fixes can be submitted to the main repo, and other changes can be put together as a proper (and simpler) Weidu mod.

[Bartimaeus]

Sort of? I mean, I have 1,164 changed files. A good percentage of it is pretty minor stuff that I'm not even going to look at, some of it is a restructure of the mod (e.g. I made it so that SR's new spell icons have a dv prefix so that they're not overwriting or otherwise conflicting with the base game's or the 1pp/EE icons), some of it is fixes, some of it is design changes. The fixes I can probably just look at old bug reports and grab the relevant files - if I haven't changed them for some other reason.

 

Mike, do you know if there's any particular reason spells with durations modified by level do not go higher? e.g. Tenser's. Is that intentional design, or was it just too much work to extend it for very little gain? I wrote an autohotkey script to automate it to a degree, so it's not much trouble for me to extend them higher.

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/b4sr7233n0dlci7/spwi603.zip

 

Here's my fixed Tenser's, for example. it fixes the ApR problem, fixes the sorcerer problem, provides immunity from IR's and SR's polymorphing abilities, and it scales up to level 50 (5 turns or 1 hour) instead of level 20 (2 turns), but it does not scale in any other way (i.e. the bonus HP from the spell does not continue to increase). Wondering if I should chop the additional levels for anything I'd want to submit like that.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[subtledoctor]

Mike, do you know if there's any particular reason spells with durations modified by level do not go higher?

Spells in AD&D only scale to level 20, by design. Some people like to "uncap" that, but it is something for a mod to do, like Tweaks Anthology... scaling to level 50 should EDIT should not be the baseline assumption for spells.

Edited August 31, 2018 by subtledoctor

[Bartimaeus]

I see (and I assume your final sentence was meant to say 20). Either way, it's trivial to cut off the extra levels.

[Mike1072]

Yes, they were capped to 20 in vanilla and SR kept the same cap intentionally. I think the main reason was to preserve game difficulty/balance.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Yes, they were capped to 20 in vanilla and SR kept the same cap intentionally. I think the main reason was to preserve game difficulty/balance.

Well, yeah. Give the player a mage that has 20d4 hit points and you can hit them with about the same amount via fireball damage, but cast it to a 10d4+10 mage, and we'll have rosted mages all over the place. Not that that proves your point at all, cause the fireball spell is capped at level 10, not 20.

[Bartimaeus]

Yeah, spell durations were the only thing I "uncapped", so to speak, since it created random end points. (1 round/level would make 2 turns, 5 rounds + 1/round level would make 2.5 turns, etc...and these "maximum" durations were never specified in the spell text, as opposed to maximum damages for spells like Fireball and such.) And unlike AD&D, BG does not really treat post-20 levels any differently from pre-20 levels, so it just seemed a little strange. But like I said, it's easy to chop them off.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[subtledoctor]

Yeah, spell durations were the only thing I "uncapped"

 

I suspect that would create more confusion than it's worth, as players would starts worrying about which aspects of which spells scale past 20, in addition to the already-confusing question of which spells scale in the first place.

 

Frankly AD&D is a mess in this regard (naturally, since the content can via literally hundreds of different sourcebooks, written by many different people with many different perspectives for many different kinds of adventures). SR goes a little way toward making this better - I think Demi tended to standardize the new spells on durations that make sense for the game, i.e. 1 turn/2 turns/5 turns/4 hours. Something like that. It would be cool if SR would do this to all of the spells in the game - maybe as an optional extra component.

 

Incidentally I have a mod that actually does that - code starting at line 1090 here:

https://github.com/UnearthedArcana/Low_Magic/blob/master/low_magic/low_magic.tp2

 

It's geared toward reducing spells' duration to make magic more ephemeral and less powerful (Confusion only lasts 3 rounds!) but it operates by user-definable .ini settings so it easily standardize spells on longer durations too.