IR Revised V1.3.800 (2022 January 11th)

[subtledoctor]

3 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Why - you going to duplicate it in your own patch?

All of this discussion makes a lot of sense for IR proper as well as IRR. I don't know the best way to package it:

1. In IR itself
2. As an optional component in IR
3. As a component of a different tweaks mod like my SD Random Tweaks
4. As an independent little hotfix

...but it should be trivial to write up something to patch them and Gorion, to add/remove the robes respectively. Frankly I lean toward #1 - as noted, Demi made IR for BG2, when even things like Tutu and BGT were not really stable or widely used. There are many instances of things not lining up quite right with BG1 filenames - e.g. a bunch of BG2-only strings, or the handling of the Ring(s) of Wizardry. I think he would approve of adjustments that make the mod work better on BGT/BGEE/EET.

[Bartimaeus]

Well, certainly #1 is the best option in my opinion, hence why I put it in IRR, . But IR has no active maintainer who can simply make decisions for the best of the mod, and so I find it a much better use of my time to unilaterally and immediately make decisions for IRR than to waste a whole lot of time submitting individual suggestions or even PRs that won't be - can't be - implemented or integrated for literally years, most likely not ever. That's why IRR (and SRR) exists in the first place: I actively maintain it and can immediately make those decisions based off of what I want and what others suggest...and I can immediately revert them if they don't end up working quite how I/others expect. It's not your ideal community consensus by any means...but at least things happen in a timely manner, no?

Edited July 21, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[subtledoctor]

Well, I have my personal fork of IR, and I can make such changes happen in a timely manner there...

[Satrhan]

Hi all, I was discussing IR over on reddit, and someone brought up some issues that I noticed myself last time I played. I looked through this topic, and I don't think it has been flagged or changed yet. It has to do with two items; Ashideena/Rift hammer, and the Shield of the falling stars.

The fist issue is that the Rift hammer is showing up in BG1, where it's really not supposed to. Looking through the IR item index, I think this is due to Demi wanting to switch the location of Borok's Fist (HAMM05), renamed to Rift hammer, with Ashideena (HAMM03) in BG2. Seems he did this by just switching the properties of each item, rather than 'physically' moving them. So HAMM03 is now the Rift hammer rather than Ashideena, which now drops from Bassilus in BG1. This hammer is way to powerful for BG1 imo.

The second issue is the shield of the falling starts shield others ability also affecting the shield carrier, effectively making this shield give a +7 bonus to AC. That makes it on par with +3 large shields, despite only being +1. I noticed in this thread you've mentioned the aura effect being a pain, but I'm not sure if this had been noticed. 

[Bartimaeus]

2 hours ago, Satrhan said:

Hi all, I was discussing IR over on reddit, and someone brought up some issues that I noticed myself last time I played. I looked through this topic, and I don't think it has been flagged or changed yet. It has to do with two items; Ashideena/Rift hammer, and the Shield of the falling stars.

The fist issue is that the Rift hammer is showing up in BG1, where it's really not supposed to. Looking through the IR item index, I think this is due to Demi wanting to switch the location of Borok's Fist (HAMM05), renamed to Rift hammer, with Ashideena (HAMM03) in BG2. Seems he did this by just switching the properties of each item, rather than 'physically' moving them. So HAMM03 is now the Rift hammer rather than Ashideena, which now drops from Bassilus in BG1. This hammer is way to powerful for BG1 imo.

The second issue is the shield of the falling starts shield others ability also affecting the shield carrier, effectively making this shield give a +7 bonus to AC. That makes it on par with +3 large shields, despite only being +1. I noticed in this thread you've mentioned the aura effect being a pain, but I'm not sure if this had been noticed. 

Can I get a copy of your SHLD07.itm from your override? I'm looking at my own right now and staring at a "Protection from Spell: SHLD07A" opcode and wondering how in the world SHLD07A.spl could be applying to the character wearing the shield, especially after testing this danged shield so many times already.

So in IR, Ashideena (HAMM03.itm) becomes Rift Hammer, The Knee-Capper (HAMM04.itm) becomes Hammer of Corrosion, and Borok's Fist (HAMM05.itm) becomes Tersyus. Which of those is the least strong? I'm not a huge fan of Bassilus using Rift Hammer either - he's had a tendency to hit that 15% and absolutely clobber my party with it in the past. Honestly, I'm a little tempted to add one of the original hammers back and give it some kind of more mild property...perhaps Borok's Fist with a knockout property...

Edited July 25, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Salk]

I didn't even know that IR replaces Bassilus' Ashideena and I cannot see any reason for doing so, honestly.

Ashideena is a unique +2 BG1 weapon which is already quite powerful and should be, in my opinion, returned to Bassilus.

[Bartimaeus]

I do not wish to restore Ashideena to its original form: the +1 electrical damage is too silly of a property and would not really jive with other elemental-type weapons in IR -  it's not like Varscona has its original +1 cold damage in BG1. I wouldn't mind restoring it and giving it a simple 1D4 electrical damage property (although I'd need to examine the icon situation)...but Hammer of Thunderbolts already has that property in the same weapon type class. However, neither Ashideena or Borok's Fist (which are literally exactly the same in terms of properties in vanilla, by the way - war hammers +2 with +1 electrical damage) have lores tied to their properties and so could be given some other type of property if needed. I'm not sure what to do here, exactly, except that I know I want at least one original hammer's name and description restored.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Salk]

I'm not sure I understand, Bartimaeus.

A +1 electrical damage is too silly of a property while a 1D4 electrical damage would be fine? 

In BG1 Ashideena matches Varscona in many ways: they both have a +1 elemental damage and they both are +2 weapons.

I'm not familiar with the thought process that had Demivrgvs swap around war hammers' properties but I am quite sure, considering the original IR changes, that he did not have a very clear picture of the BG1 part of the game.

I personally don't see a reason for not having all the original properties of Ashideena restored but I am looking forward to understanding why it cannot be so within IRR.

Cheers! 

[Bartimaeus]

There literally isn't a single other item that has a property like that in IR that I can think of - they're always converted to dice rolls. For example (again), Varscona...or Arrow of Fire/Cold, Bolt of Lightning, Stonefire, Frostreaver, Taragarth, Sword of Flame, Flame of the North, and so on and so forth.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Salk]

Oh I understand what you meant now.

But then IR changes also Varscona's +1 cold damage?

I'm not home and I cannot verify this myself at the moment.

[Bartimaeus]

Yes: it's 1D4.

[yakattack]

Not sure if you have much interest in changing BG1 around, but I've been playing it recently with IR and I have a few thoughts...

At the moment IR increases the player's power in BG1 quite a lot. The main thing is the +strength items, of which there are three if you include the belt from Rasaad's quest (I would personally prefer that any EENPC items be relatively weak so I can happily remove them). You can get two characters to near-max strength, plus many items like varscona are straight-up buffed compared to vanilla. In fact, two of the strongest weapon classes (longswords and scimitars) receive considerable buffs, while many "bad" types like axes, flails, katanas, and halberds, remain bad. Missile weapons are a little bit nerfed, but you forget about that pretty quickly when you have a 25-strength level 5 fighter dual wielding varscona and the new and improved vampire's revenge. With so much strength available, dual-wielding is supreme. Generally I am not a fan of the conversion of strength-setting items to +strength items, even in BG2. It favours powergaming or custom parties, since if you have good stats already it makes you even better, and the items can often be combined to reach 25 strength on multiple characters, which is mostly impossible in vanilla. In vanilla these items are a great way to improve suboptimal bioware NPCs, while powergaming is somewhat limited since they can't be stacked.

[Salk]

I sympathize with the straight-up buffs to some items but I generally welcome the +STR items replacing the original ones. It is a good choice to avoid making unique and supposedly beneficial items be completely or almost completely useless.

I also don't think including Rasaad's quest belt can support your argument when talking about IR(R). It's an external item and IR cannot strike a balance with modifications that add new items. It must work on the original Bioware assets.

I'm also genuinely curious about how you managed to combine IR items to reach STR 25 on multiple characters (I assume multiple means at least 3 out of 6 party members) in BG2, let alone BG1.  

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Salk

[Cahir]

44 minutes ago, Salk said:

I sympathize with the straight-up buffs to some items but I generally welcome the +STR items replacing the original ones. It is a good choice to avoid making unique and supposedly beneficial items be completely or almost completely useless.

I also don't think including Rasaad's quest belt can support your argument when talking about IR(R). It's an external item and IR cannot strike a balance with modifications that add new items. It must work on the original Bioware assets.

I'm also genuinely curious about how you managed to combine IR items to reach STR 25 on multiple characters (I assume multiple means at least 3 out of 6 party members) in BG2, let alone BG1.  

 

Including Rasaad's belt in the discussion is as good argument as any. Whether you like EE's or not, it's now the part of the core game experience. Besides, last time I heard IR(R) was not restricted classic versions. Has this changed and I failed to notice? 

[Salk]

25 minutes ago, Cahir said:

Including Rasaad's belt in the discussion is as good argument as any. Whether you like EE's or not, it's now the part of the core game experience. Besides, last time I heard IR(R) was not restricted classic versions. Has this changed and I failed to notice? 

My bad.

I misunderstood Rasaad's belt to be an item added by a third party modification and not being introduced by EE (I have nothing against BG EE, by the way). But even so, IR does cater to both the classic and the EE players but cannot shift its core balance in favor of EE added items. It is more sensible to strike a balance considering what items both classic and EE do have rather than assume every IR player is going to obtain EE items.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Salk