IR Revised V1.3.800 (2022 January 11th)

[Guest Alkaid]

The Silver Sword is also kind of a weird one, because at least in later games Vorpal Blades, while rare and powerful, aren't 'one of a kind' artifacts like Carsomyr or Crom Faeyr. Admittedly, Carsomyr itself is just one of a bunch of more generic Holy Avengers, but I'd honestly put the Equalizer above SS.

[Bartimaeus]

3 hours ago, Guest Alkaid said:

The Silver Sword is also kind of a weird one, because at least in later games Vorpal Blades, while rare and powerful, aren't 'one of a kind' artifacts like Carsomyr or Crom Faeyr. Admittedly, Carsomyr itself is just one of a bunch of more generic Holy Avengers, but I'd honestly put the Equalizer above SS.

Yeah, there are a number of Silver Swords, but for the purpose of BG and IR, I think it makes sense to treat it as a major artifact (...especially given that the githyanki themselves seem to as well at a number of occasions). Maybe it's a particularly notable silver sword, I'm not sure.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[subtledoctor]

Remember, a version of this mod removes ALL unnamed enchanted weapons, so the ONLY magic weapons in the game are those with special lore around them. But that doesn't make something an "artifact." Varscona is a nice upgrade on a normal longsword, but it's not an artifact.  When I say "artifact" I specifically mean something that might be in the Book of Artifacts - the Hand of Vecna, the Ring of Gaxx, Krynn's Dragon Orbs, the Machine of Lum the Mad, etc. Put another way, as I did earlier, Think about how Vecna himself died, cut down by Kas. The Sword of Kas is, unsurprisingly, an artifact.  Or more relevant, think about how our god-daddy Bhaal died: he had to be cut down by a particularly powerful magical sword, which was infused* with actual divine power. 

* (Let's leave off spoiling the story, I guess, if you already know why that needed an asterisk.)

So what weapons sound like god-killers?

I just updated the mod and these are the rules I applied:

1. Any weapon that has to be put together from different parts acquired while questing = an artifact.  (So, it hits as +5.)  This includes the upgraded Mace of Disruption, even though it is the easiest such weapon to put together.
2. Any weapon that is in an incomplete state for not yet having been fully put together = not an artifact.  (So, it hits as +3, though these often still have very powerful secondary effects and to hit/damage bonuses that far exceed those of lesser magical items.)
3. The sole exception to Rule #2 is Carsomyr. The unupgraded Carsomyr counts as an artifact and hits as +5. (Frankly making this thing "upgradeable" was pretty silly in the first place.)
4. Items that describe themselves as artifacts and back it up with capabilities similar to the above, are artifacts. The best example is K'logorath, the description of which overtly says "whole nations have gone to war" to possess "this artifact." Yup, that there is an artifact. Hits as +5.
5. Items that have minor effects (say, +2 to hit and damage plus a bit of elemental damage - lookin' at you Varscona/Stonefire/Frostreaver/Blackblood) are regular magic items. Hit as +3.
6. Items whose descriptions mention bland things like "a useful enchantment" or "this was the sword of [some rando mortal]" are regular magic items. Hit as +3. The Ice Star is powerful, but with apologies, it falls into this category. 

Notwithstanding its importance in e.g. NWN2, the current updated version of the mod leaves the Silver Sword as a non-artifact weapon that hits as +3. But again, while this may sound "weaker," I challenge anyone to write a list of enemies who can't be hit by such weapons. Off the top of my head, I can only think of two. Maybe three.

Edited October 15, 2021 by subtledoctor

[Bartimaeus]

Does anyone know what popular mods add items (specifically, weapons, shields, armors, helms)? Both for the EEs as well as for the original games. I have finished (for now) updating IRR to be able to update items' descriptions in the new EE style of descriptions (both the main component as well as the secondary components, and independent of whether you're using IRR's main component or not), but I must admit that I am greatly afeared of the possible mangle-job that might happen to popular mod-added items, and it kind of merits investigation before wrapping up x.600. Thing is, I don't use virtually any mod-added items myself, so I don't know what would be good to check.

On 10/15/2021 at 5:28 PM, subtledoctor said:

Any weapon that has to be put together from different parts acquired while questing = an artifact.  (So, it hits as +5.)  This includes the upgraded Mace of Disruption, even though it is the easiest such weapon to put together.

...

the current updated version of the mod leaves the Silver Sword as a non-artifact weapon that hits as +3

So how come the improved Mace of Disruption is included in the above, but the Silver Sword is not? Besides that, I guess all that sounds fine to me. Also, agreed on Carsomyr - I would genuinely prefer that it stay +5 and disable the upgrade path for it so that the Eye of Tyr (or whatever) can only be used for Purifier. In IR(R?), all that Carsomyr +5 gets in comparison from the "+4" version is +10% more MR and "Holy" (+5 damage vs. evil) instead of "Righteous" (+3 damage vs. evil). You could easily bridge the gap by just giving it Holy to begin with and calling it a day. Whatever, though.

(e): Actually, I might do this, now that I think about it...but maybe not in IRR, unless other people want it, I guess.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Hubal]

Team BG Armours and Weapons is 100% not touched by IRR.

About Carsomyr =Great Idea or you could just add another eye.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Hubal

[Bartimaeus]

5 minutes ago, Hubal said:

Team BG Armours and Weapons is 100% not touched by IRR.

This mod does a remarkable job of having weapon descriptions that are similar to vanilla BG's: i.e. they're utterly chaotic without any kind of formatting standard.

Spoiler

I looked at exactly five weapons, and I found a total lack of order between those five weapons.

• One weapon has "Lightning Resistance: 20%" appear directly under "STATISTICS" all by itself...
• But another places an AC bonus ("Improves AC by 1") under an "Equipped Abilities:" header instead...
• And then forgets the colon after "STATISTICS" while the first one didn't (and it's not by any means the only one to do so)...
• One weapon puts bonus fire damage directly to the right of a "Combat Abilities:" header (not under, directly to the right!)...
• A different one puts additional cold damage directly on top of the normal damage field...
• Yet another one instead puts it on its own line UNDER the damage line as "Bonus +3 electrical damage"...
• Misspelled proficiency types ("Two handed sword"?)...
• Spaces that randomly appear or are randomly lacking...

I know I am very OCD, but good golly. Okay, whatever - this mod, although it has an EE-specific version, makes zero attempt to actually have its item descriptions in the EE format, which is actually the key thing I want to test to make sure the descriptions don't blow up when using the EE-style descriptions for IRR. I can't magically fix every other mod's formatting standards (or lack thereof), but I do want to make sure they don't get ruined by my changes.

I'm trying to install the Armor Pack, but it won't install on a clean BG2EE? Guess I'll just disable the part of the installation that is breaking, which is something store-related... No, it doesn't look like these armors are covered by the armor list to patch, will add and see how they fare, thanks.

[Hubal]

I wouldn't touch it if I were you. They are overpowered anyway.

Thalantyr Item Upgrade and Weimer's Item Upgrade you should consider

[subtledoctor]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

So how come the improved Mace of Disruption is included in the above, but the Silver Sword is not?

Whoops, very good point! And you can only make the Silver Sword much later in the game. OK, I’m adding it to the “hits as +5” list. 

Edited October 17, 2021 by subtledoctor

[Bartimaeus]

17 minutes ago, Hubal said:

I wouldn't touch it if I were you. They are overpowered anyway.

Thalantyr Item Upgrade and Weimer's Item Upgrade you should consider

If by "consider", you mean I should include and re-write them, it's not really...kosher to include other modders' work in that manner. It does create an unfortunate situation where you have two mods that should theoretically fit together, but don't because of small technical and conceptual issues. At this time, what I really am looking for is simply making sure that other mods' item descriptions don't get horribly mangled because of me on the global patching scale, i.e. when doing stuff such as adding lines like "Physical Resistance Bonus" or "Movement Rate Penalty", if you use those options. It'd be awesome to be able to globally re-write usable items' descriptions in the proper format, but...it's difficult to do that when mod-added items like to have descriptions that make up new formats for every new item they add. @DavidW demonstrated that it's possible to at least generate the basic statistics of item, such as this for a non-EE Long Sword +1...

THAC0: +1 bonus
Damage: 1D8 + 1
Damage Type: Slashing
Weight: 4
Speed Factor: 4
Proficiency Type: Long Sword
Type: One-Handed
Requires: 6 Strength
Not Usable By:
 Cleric
 Druid
 Mage
 Beast Master

...but it gets really sketchy to use blindly on items where you don't already know what the result will be, and especially for items that put all sorts of special properties who knows where.

14 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Whoops, very good point! And you can only make the Silver Sword much later in the game. OK, I’m adding it to the “hits as +5” list. 

Nice, .

Edited October 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Hubal]

I have installed previous version of IRR without modified descriptions cause basic two handed sword's text was mangled.

I will try latest version with Thalantyr Item Upgrade and Weimer's Item Upgrade to give you some feedback.

 

[Bartimaeus]

14 minutes ago, Hubal said:

I have installed previous version of IRR without modified descriptions cause basic two handed sword's text was mangled.

I will try latest version with Thalantyr Item Upgrade and Weimer's Item Upgrade to give you some feedback.

 

Thanks, but also, can I get more information about this Two-Handed Sword issue? Vanilla BG2EE..:

Just the main IRR component..:

...and with Weapon Changes:

What's mangled?

Edited October 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Hubal]

Damn  I have already deleted that. 

Statistics were doubled for example.

[Bartimaeus]

3 hours ago, Hubal said:

Damn  I have already deleted that. 

Statistics were doubled for example.

If you see any more mangling, especially on non-mod-added items, I would greatly appreciate getting as much info about them as possible, .

[Hubal]

Ok here we go 

[Bartimaeus]

@Hubal Thanks, I can see an obvious problem with the halberd (you presumably enabled dual mode for them?), but I don't see anything wrong with any of the others. Well, except for the Composite Short Bow, which has the wrong proficiency text and places the strength requirement on the wrong line...but it isn't an IR item. Is there something you think is wrong with them?

Edited October 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus