List of continuous EET characters

[Roxanne]

 

 

Yes, I completely agree, that's exactly what I was saying

 

K4thos, would it be possible to implement this solution in EET? An option that would sound like "Move unsupported BG2 characters to Friendly Arm Inn after SoD separation", that can be chosen from BWS for example. Maybe with just a little standard dialogue for rejoining.

 

This would mean to either hijack mod NPCs against author's decision or tweak vanilla ones. This cannot be the scope of EET.

 

Of course someone may create an own mod to do that (including loads of incompatibility issues...).

 

Just do this: C:CreateCreature("NPCName") and CTRL+Q on it. There you go.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Roxanne

[K4thos]

K4thos, would it be possible to implement this solution in EET? An option that would sound like "Move unsupported BG2 characters to Friendly Arm Inn after SoD separation", that can be chosen from BWS for example. Maybe with just a little standard dialogue for rejoining.

let's see (massive BG2/SoD spoilers below):

 

 

Ajantis - cameo appearance, death during Journey to the Windspear Hills SoA quest

Baeloth - during BG2 he is messing with Black Pits 2 (btw. when you first meet him in BG1 it's a direct continuation of what happened in Black Pits 1)

Coran - cameo appearance, death during Coran and the Wolfweres SoA quest

Dynaheir - death during SoD/beginning of SoA

Faldorn - death during Animal Trouble in Trademeet SoA quest

Garrick - during SoA he meet a woman from Calimshan, whom he accompanies to that southern nation

Khalid - death during SoD/beginning of SoA

Montaron - death during Find out What Happened to Montaron SoA quest

Quayle - during SoA he runs circus in Waukeen Promenade and must have been there for quite some time (Aerie)

Safana - cameo appearance, death during Coran and the Wolfweres SoA quest

Skie - death during SoD

Tiax - during SoA imprisoned in Spellhold

Xzar - death during Find out What Happened to Montaron SoA quest

 

So the only NPCs who’s story is not fully resolved are:

Alora

Branwen

Eldoth

Kagain

Kivan

SharTeel

Xan

Yeslick

 

But every single one of them tells you during SoD first dungeon that it's probably better to part ways once the Sarevok stuff is resolved. For example Xan mentions that "We've been digging around in old and horrible tombs for so long... I fear exhaustion will take me soon.", then "We've done well thus far. How much longer do you think our luck can hold?" and in the end "I've endured your idiosyncrasies quite long enough, <CHARNAME>, but this is the last tomb you, or anyone, will lure me into." I think it clearly presents that he is no longer interested in further travels, so it makes sense that he is gone minding his own business after that. Some of these NPCs will even outright refuse to join you during SoD (SharTeel, Tiax, Coran, Eldoth). Same for the other above mentioned NPCs, often including foreshadowing of future SoA cameo appearances.

 

 

So technically at various parts of the game thier story is resolved. I think making those NPCs joinable in SoA is a job for other mods rather than EET since it requires rewriting vanilla content. On top of that any change to the NPCs story would lead to headaches for modders since they would need to take it into account. For example jastey's Ajantis mod allows you to solve Journey to the Windspear Hills differently in order to rescue Ajantis. Messing with that quest would lead to additional work required to make it work without a good reason (considering such NPC would have 0 SoA/ToB content written in clean EET).

 

edit: added Garrick to the list of solved plots since he has 2 SoA cameo appereances in Athkatla Temple District.

Edited July 27, 2017 by K4thos

[Roxanne]

 

K4thos, would it be possible to implement this solution in EET? An option that would sound like "Move unsupported BG2 characters to Friendly Arm Inn after SoD separation", that can be chosen from BWS for example. Maybe with just a little standard dialogue for rejoining.

let's see (massive BG2/SoD spoilers below):

 

 

Ajantis - cameo appearance, death during Journey to the Windspear Hills SoA quest

Baeloth - during BG2 he is messing with Black Pits 2

Coran - cameo appearance, death during Coran and the Wolfweres SoA quest

Dynaheir - death during SoD/beginning of SoA

Faldorn - death during Animal Trouble in Trademeet SoA quest

Khalid - death during SoD/beginning of SoA

Montaron - death during Find out What Happened to Montaron SoA quest

Quayle - during SoA he runs circus in Waukeen Promenade and must have been there for quite some time (Aerie)

Safana - cameo appearance, death during Coran and the Wolfweres SoA quest

Skie - death during SoD

Tiax - during SoA imprisoned in Spellhold

Xzar - death during Find out What Happened to Montaron SoA quest

 

So the only NPCs who’s story is not fully resolved are:

Alora

Branwen

Eldoth

Garrick

Kagain

Kivan

SharTeel

Xan

Yeslick

 

But every single one of them tells you during SoD first dungeon that it's probably better to part ways once the Sarevok stuff is resolved. For example Xan mentions that "We've been digging around in old and horrible tombs for so long... I fear exhaustion will take me soon.", then "We've done well thus far. How much longer do you think our luck can hold?" and in the end "I've endured your idiosyncrasies quite long enough, <CHARNAME>, but this is the last tomb you, or anyone, will lure me into." I think it clearly presents that he is no longer interested in further travels, so it makes sense that he is gone minding his own business after that. Same for the other above mentioned NPCs, often including foreshadowing of future SoA cameo appearances.

 

 

So technically at various parts of the game thier story is resolved. I think making those NPCs joinable in SoA is a job for mods rather than EET since it requires rewriting vanilla content. On top of that any change to the NPCs story would lead to headaches for modders since they would need to take it into account. For example jastey's Ajantis mod allows you to solve Journey to the Windspear Hills differently in order to rescue Ajantis. Messing with that quest would lead to additional work required to make it work without a good reason (considering such NPC would have 0 SoA/ToB content written in clean EET).

 

This almost sounds like repeating old errors once again. In BGT there was a mod which let BG1 NPCs appear in BG2 - and then there were mods who expanded those from k4thos list (So the only NPCs who’s story is not fully resolved are:) and the results were:

- two Corans in Tethir forest

- Kivan meeting Kivan in Umar hills

- Jaheirah mourning the dead Khalid who was walking in the party next to her

- several different incarnations of Shar-Teel

etc etc.

[jastey]

- two Corans in Tethir forest

- Kivan meeting Kivan in Umar hills

- Jaheirah mourning the dead Khalid who was walking in the party next to her

- several different incarnations of Shar-Teel

etc etc.

And, take Ajantis on a quest to save Ajantis. Heh.

Well, there will be always different mods featuring the same BG1 NPCs, and that's alright because it broadens the content the player can chose from. (Having them all in one game is the problem then.) But in general, there is no reason not to have another NPC mod for a game character if the modder wants to tell his/her own story (I am biased in this regard, though.)

 

But - it's not scope of EET. And, as Roxanne already pointed out, having the BG1NPCs in BGII without content and taking them from Irenicus Dungeon and meeting all the (fleshed-out) BG1 mod NPCs along the way would kill the playing fun for me.

 

(Just a note: Requests like these are one reason I will not script my BGII Ajantis to use the BG1 script variable. I am not judging, just saying that I'm not doing it to prevent two mod NPCs to be triggered at the same time.)

[Blash2]

 

 

 

Yes, I completely agree, that's exactly what I was saying

 

K4thos, would it be possible to implement this solution in EET? An option that would sound like "Move unsupported BG2 characters to Friendly Arm Inn after SoD separation", that can be chosen from BWS for example. Maybe with just a little standard dialogue for rejoining.

 

This would mean to either hijack mod NPCs against author's decision or tweak vanilla ones. This cannot be the scope of EET.

 

 

I don't agree. Instead, letting a player meet a character with the same name but different stats, proficiency points, experience points, equipment, etc would be AGAINST the scope of EET, that is continuity. Above all, it is very immersion-breaking, and thus very bad on the role playing side.

 

Anyway, thanks everybody for the answers

 

As for "old errors", Roxanne, I want to point out, for example, that I remember that Coran BG2 mod has the option to remove the other Coran from Tethyr Forest, so there would not be two Coran.

 

K4thos, would it be possible to detect a few NPCs whose story is not definitively resolved and for which it would suffice a "move to FAI and remove the other character with same name from BG2"?

Speaking of Coran, a solution is already present.

 

Anyway, I'm just stressing all the options to be sure not to miss the possibility to have one full continuous party, if there is one, even remotely

 

At present time, for a good aligned party, the only solution would be Charname, Imoen, Sirene, Sandrah, Minsc and Jaheira (Neera is too dangerous for a no-reload game). No mage, no archer.

 

Edit: Hey! Neera is too dangerous for a no-reload game WITHOUT the EET Tweak that allows main character to die, right? Or is it incompatible with Sandrah's Saga? Not remembering how the matter was exactly

Edited July 27, 2017 by Blash2

[Jarno Mikkola]

the only solution would be ... Imoen.... No mage, no archer.

Wha &%? I can't follow your logic. She is the default slot for both of those, she might not be the most powerful one in either one, but by default she joins the party with a short bow with high dex, and she will become a mage, so....

[Blash2]

Yes you're right, but I'm used to having two mages, I think one is not enough. And Imoen can't really be called an archer.. no longbows, composite bows etc. I could solve rolling a warrior/thief (like Coran) as charname instead of a Paladin (my favourite RPGwise), but I'll wait for clarification about that EET tweak, Neera would be nice.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Blash2

[bob_veng]

 

- two Corans in Tethir forest

- Kivan meeting Kivan in Umar hills

- Jaheirah mourning the dead Khalid who was walking in the party next to her

- several different incarnations of Shar-Teel

etc etc.

And, take Ajantis on a quest to save Ajantis. Heh.

Well, there will be always different mods featuring the same BG1 NPCs, and that's alright because it broadens the content the player can chose from. (Having them all in one game is the problem then.) But in general, there is no reason not to have another NPC mod for a game character if the modder wants to tell his/her own story (I am biased in this regard, though.)

 

But - it's not scope of EET. And, as Roxanne already pointed out, having the BG1NPCs in BGII without content and taking them from Irenicus Dungeon and meeting all the (fleshed-out) BG1 mod NPCs along the way would kill the playing fun for me.

 

(Just a note: Requests like these are one reason I will not script my BGII Ajantis to use the BG1 script variable. I am not judging, just saying that I'm not doing it to prevent two mod NPCs to be triggered at the same time.)

 

 

 

I think the situation can be described like this, if we start from a provisional agreement that just the "technical" continuity (no content changes) would be a significant improvement over the status quo:

- if the work required to do this was fairly small: it would be in the scope of EET to make versions of certain mods with purely "technological" updates (in order to make them "compliant with EET standards" ); that's a conceivable construction and all relevant people would either cooperate or not complain

- if it's not fairly small​, this work falls out of the scope of EET because it becomes an unpractical idea

 

so it's not about the results. the results would be good and worthy and would certainly elevate EET for a lot of players (some non-technical people still wonder what's the "added value" of EET compared to importing...). it's about the scope of a project more in practical terms, than conceptual terms...

[Blash2]

Is Sirene 100% continuous? In BWS Sirene for BGEE and BG2EE are listed as two different mods, and the description of the latter makes me think it is not:

 

"This is a sequel to Sirene NPC for BG1:EE. Sirene is a joinable lawful-good tiefling with a custom paladin kit and several new items, spells and areas. She can be found within the High Hall of the Radiant Heart, in the corridor past the entrance. She will only join a non-evil PC. Her level is dependent on the PC's upon joining. She has both a friendship path and a romance, which can be initiated by a PC of any race and gender with 12 or above charisma. PCs who knew her from BG1 can bring up their past for a few extra talks. If your reputation drops below 9, she will stop her friendship and romance talks and warn you. If it drops below 5, she will leave permanently. She is compatible with all NPCs except Dorn and Hexxat, who she will come to conflict with quickly and force you to choose between them. She also has an optional component that adds reactions to the Romantic Encounters mod, of which only the scene with Anne will terminate her romance. Her romance will not terminate due to interactions with any other NPCs."

[Roxanne]

Is Sirene 100% continuous? In BWS Sirene for BGEE and BG2EE are listed as two different mods, and the description of the latter makes me think it is not:

 

"This is a sequel to Sirene NPC for BG1:EE. Sirene is a joinable lawful-good tiefling with a custom paladin kit and several new items, spells and areas. She can be found within the High Hall of the Radiant Heart, in the corridor past the entrance. She will only join a non-evil PC. Her level is dependent on the PC's upon joining. She has both a friendship path and a romance, which can be initiated by a PC of any race and gender with 12 or above charisma. PCs who knew her from BG1 can bring up their past for a few extra talks. If your reputation drops below 9, she will stop her friendship and romance talks and warn you. If it drops below 5, she will leave permanently. She is compatible with all NPCs except Dorn and Hexxat, who she will come to conflict with quickly and force you to choose between them. She also has an optional component that adds reactions to the Romantic Encounters mod, of which only the scene with Anne will terminate her romance. Her romance will not terminate due to interactions with any other NPCs."

Sirene is continuous as the creature appearing in EET in Radiant Heart will be the same one you had in BG1/SoD.The above description is generic. A new creature is only created if !BeenInParty("C0Sirene"), i.e she has not been in your party before.You can find all details in the area script of area ar0903 (ar0903.bcs).

[Lundar]

Hello,

 

maybe its the wrong forum; but I encountered a Morven.

Who might this be ?

From Sandrah Mod or a new NPC from EE(T)

 

Has she some content ?

 

Just wanted to ask....

[Blash2]

 

Is Sirene 100% continuous? In BWS Sirene for BGEE and BG2EE are listed as two different mods, and the description of the latter makes me think it is not:

 

"This is a sequel to Sirene NPC for BG1:EE. Sirene is a joinable lawful-good tiefling with a custom paladin kit and several new items, spells and areas. She can be found within the High Hall of the Radiant Heart, in the corridor past the entrance. She will only join a non-evil PC. Her level is dependent on the PC's upon joining. She has both a friendship path and a romance, which can be initiated by a PC of any race and gender with 12 or above charisma. PCs who knew her from BG1 can bring up their past for a few extra talks. If your reputation drops below 9, she will stop her friendship and romance talks and warn you. If it drops below 5, she will leave permanently. She is compatible with all NPCs except Dorn and Hexxat, who she will come to conflict with quickly and force you to choose between them. She also has an optional component that adds reactions to the Romantic Encounters mod, of which only the scene with Anne will terminate her romance. Her romance will not terminate due to interactions with any other NPCs."

Sirene is continuous as the creature appearing in EET in Radiant Heart will be the same one you had in BG1/SoD.The above description is generic. A new creature is only created if !BeenInParty("C0Sirene"), i.e she has not been in your party before.You can find all details in the area script of area ar0903 (ar0903.bcs).

 

 

Thanks

Maybe we're off topic here, but considering her continuity, maybe in EET installation, BWS should treat her as a single mod, for major clarity.

 

Roxanne, just to be sure: Sirene for BG1 has the option to change Paladin kit or class, Sirene for BG2 does not have it.

 

The mod author said, when asked about the absence of the possibility to change class in BG2: "I tried to make an optional F/C component. It ended up being extremely buggy due to a certain event which affects her class. It might have worked with different paladin kits but absolutely not a separate class, not without changing some of the script. It can be done, but it's not an option at the moment. I'd say keep her as a paladin if you want consistency.".

 

So, if I make her a Cavalier in BG1, considering what you said, she will stay a Cavalier forever. The answer might seem obvious but I want to be sure

Edited July 28, 2017 by Blash2

[Roxanne]

 

 

Is Sirene 100% continuous? In BWS Sirene for BGEE and BG2EE are listed as two different mods, and the description of the latter makes me think it is not:

 

"This is a sequel to Sirene NPC for BG1:EE. Sirene is a joinable lawful-good tiefling with a custom paladin kit and several new items, spells and areas. She can be found within the High Hall of the Radiant Heart, in the corridor past the entrance. She will only join a non-evil PC. Her level is dependent on the PC's upon joining. She has both a friendship path and a romance, which can be initiated by a PC of any race and gender with 12 or above charisma. PCs who knew her from BG1 can bring up their past for a few extra talks. If your reputation drops below 9, she will stop her friendship and romance talks and warn you. If it drops below 5, she will leave permanently. She is compatible with all NPCs except Dorn and Hexxat, who she will come to conflict with quickly and force you to choose between them. She also has an optional component that adds reactions to the Romantic Encounters mod, of which only the scene with Anne will terminate her romance. Her romance will not terminate due to interactions with any other NPCs."

Sirene is continuous as the creature appearing in EET in Radiant Heart will be the same one you had in BG1/SoD.The above description is generic. A new creature is only created if !BeenInParty("C0Sirene"), i.e she has not been in your party before.You can find all details in the area script of area ar0903 (ar0903.bcs).

 

 

Thanks

Maybe we're off topic here, but considering her continuity, maybe in EET installation, BWS should treat her as a single mod, for major clarity.

 

Roxanne, just to be sure: Sirene for BG1 has the option to change Paladin kit or class, Sirene for BG2 does not have it.

 

The mod author said, when asked about the absence of the possibility to change class in BG2: "I tried to make an optional F/C component. It ended up being extremely buggy due to a certain event which affects her class. It might have worked with different paladin kits but absolutely not a separate class, not without changing some of the script. It can be done, but it's not an option at the moment. I'd say keep her as a paladin if you want consistency.".

 

So, if I make her a Cavalier in BG1, considering what you said, she will stay a Cavalier forever. The answer might seem obvious but I want to be sure

 

1. BWS supports install, download, unpacking etc of mods. BWS does not change mods (other than applying fixpack and patches where required). Sirene is a mod in two parts with the option to install one or both, including the choice of subcomponents. BWS will not change the author's design of her mod.

2. Making her paladin in BG1 part will stay with that. Consider that EET is one game not two games glued together. Technically, EET uses the BG2EE capabilities and platform, i.e. anything that BG2EE supports is what EET supports. There is no change of rules etc between the various parts. Also, you can always use your party in BG2 chapters to return to BG1 areas etc.

[Blash2]

Ok, thank you

 

Not very in-topic, but just wanted to share. For my no-reload EET run, my good-aligned, continuous party through all the game, will be:

 

- Charname (cleric/mage);
- Imoen (dual class at level 7 to mage);
- Sirene (Cavalier kit);
- Sandrah (cleric/warrior);
- Minsc (mace dual wielder or archer, we'll see);
- free slot for rotation of quest related NPCs.

[Roxanne]

Ok, thank you

 

Not very in-topic, but just wanted to share. For my no-reload EET run, my good-aligned, continuous party through all the game, will be:

 

- Charname (cleric/mage);

- Imoen (dual class at level 7 to mage);

- Sirene (Cavalier kit);

- Sandrah (cleric/warrior);

- Minsc (mace dual wielder or archer, we'll see);

- free slot for rotation of quest related NPCs.

A hint - with Sandrah you will have the chance to dual-class Imoen to thief mage from the beginning via an option in the first talk with Imoen in Candlekeep. This adds far more contents and also two large extra quests for the Imoen/Sandrah pairing in BG1 - just in case such stuff interests you.