Paladin and pre-marital sex

[Guest Guest]

But Anomen does have sex with charname, right after he becomes the knight of the order and he's a priest of Helm and a noble too.

[neriana]

Ajantis flirts like crazy with Branwen at least (she's dismissive) and probably any other female NPC he likes.

[Guest Guest]

Ajantis is probably a human being as opposed to a walking paladins rulebook If he were in love, he might follow his heart, maybe

[Domi]

So, it's inhuman to delay till a proper ceremony, prescribed by the rules, that the man respects and values, as opposite to mating where and when the desire took him?

 

EDIT: Sorry, that sounded too high-handed. WHat I am trying to say, that waiting is human as well, and that there is really no equivalency of 'not having premaritual sex = stuffy, boring, stiff, tin-can-like and non-romantic'

 

It is sort of an echo of my thoughts on the relatively widespread trend (that, I confess, irritates me) of making a character roguish to make him or her attractive, and reducing loyal, good, solid characters to boring shoe-shelves for the artificially cutsey vagabonds.

[Guest Guest]

Mine sounded a bit high-handed too I meant if he were really in love with charname rather than just trying to get her into bed (coran style) That he might not consider it necessary to wait for a ceremony (which in my opinion is only a way of society recognising a love which may or may not be there, rather than love itself). Besides as somone already said, somtimes for a member of a noble family marriage is associated with duty rather than love.

And I dont think that waiting until marriage to have sex is stuffy or boring

[Grim Squeaker]

Ahem. The supposedly Christian view of 'sex-before-marriage is bad' isn't actually said as being forbidden by any important figure in the Bible (though I suppose some verses could be interpreted as meaning as such). The reason this taboo exists in some churchs is that Mary being pregnant when her husband was unmarried was seen in the Bible as being somehow wrong. This was not a religious issue but actually a financial one at the time. If a woman was no longer a virgin, were she to get married the husband's family would not have to give the wife's family any form of gift (usually money), as the woman was seen as being inpure or possibly second-rate ('Why should we give money for a second-hand woman?'). But anyway, as this was an issue in the society of the Bible, in which the writers wrote the Bible, their worry (and possibly disgust) was entered into the Bible. Therefore as the Bible seems to state 'sex-before-marriage is bad', it has been taken by some Christians (including the Catholic church) that it is God's view that sex-before-marriage is bad.

 

So bringing this to FR. The issue is not whether the FR churchs may potentially frown on sex-before-marriage in a similar way to some Christian churchs, but whether there is any tradition in FR of this kind of dowry for a wedding that is void for the impure. Given that there are not any issues with other characters having sex-before-marriage in the game, I would say there isn't. I suppose it is possible that such a law was true and then disgarded, but still have been recorded in their religious texts (as has happened in Christianity) but that's quite unlikely, as to my knowledge the FR faiths don't have a specific religious text that they would entirely put their opinions in.

 

So to summarise, it's unlikely the FR faiths would have a problem with sex-before-marriage.

 

NB:

1) I am a Christian so please no-one say that any of this is offensive to Christians.

 

2) Yes, I know Keldorn is worried about Aerie and <CHARNAME> having a bastard child but thats a different matter in itself.

[Sorrow]

Hi, I'm new here.

I think that paladin of Helm should avoid conflicts of responsibilities.

A paladin cannot dedicate herself to her paladin’s duty and family.

Succeeding on one field usually means a total failure on other.

The life of paladin is full of risk and often she has to sacrifice her life to fulfill the duty.

By dying she would fail her duty to her family.

So some paladins (I think that it would be majority) would fully dedicate themselves to being a paladin and would rather seek physical sex than love.

[Domi]

So some paladins (I think that it would be majority) would fully dedicate themselves to being a paladin and would rather seek physical sex than love.

 

Now, that's a fresh insight While the Order is in town, the whores can be assured that they would not go hungry. However, this logic is flawed in one aspect - it is applicable to any and all adventurers with a slight change of the 'because' sentence: thief can be hanged, so he would rather seek physical love, bard needs to travel, to practice his craft, priest loves his god above all, etc. In other words, it leaves peasents and commoners as the seekers of true love and dreamers, which goes against the grain of every romantic canon, lol.

 

So bringing this to FR. The issue is not whether the FR churchs may potentially frown on sex-before-marriage in a similar way to some Christian churchs, but whether there is any tradition in FR of this kind of dowry for a wedding that is void for the impure. Given that there are not any issues with other characters having sex-before-marriage in the game, I would say there isn't.

 

The thing is that we do not know. The game swings between arcahic traditions with Nalia and her pre-arranged marriage to rather free-style relations. Howevere, all three female romances in the game are not human maidens of noble descent. Jaheira is a widow, Aerie is an elf - and between the elves there is indeed no virgin-or-wed and Viconia is a widow as well and a drow, and among the dorw, Drizzt is the only one to guard his virginity. On the other hand, we have a clear indication in What's-it's-name Salvatore's novel, that Cattie-Brie does not lay with Wulfgar during their fiance-ing. I think, that anywhere, where the institution of marriage exist, the concept of the husband being the first woman's lover as something of special importance can be suggested within the resonable doubts.

 

I meant if he were really in love with charname rather than just trying to get her into bed (coran style)

 

You are misreading Coran - he wants them in his bed becasue he truly and insanely in love with them at the moment. Love has many aspects, and the true love does not have to span 400 years. He loves each of his girl for the night with no less intensity than Kivan loves his Deheriana. Kivan retains that feeling the morning after, Coran does not, unless he is toroughly hooked, intrigued and caught in the net of his own imagination. Guys like Coran more often than not end up worshipful of that one woman that his fancy selected in the end and for good.

[Grim Squeaker]

So bringing this to FR. The issue is not whether the FR churchs may potentially frown on sex-before-marriage in a similar way to some Christian churchs, but whether there is any tradition in FR of this kind of dowry for a wedding that is void for the impure. Given that there are not any issues with other characters having sex-before-marriage in the game, I would say there isn't.

 

The thing is that we do not know. The game swings between arcahic traditions with Nalia and her pre-arranged marriage to rather free-style relations. Howevere, all three female romances in the game are not human maidens of noble descent. Jaheira is a widow, Aerie is an elf - and between the elves there is indeed no virgin-or-wed and Viconia is a widow as well and a drow, and among the dorw, Drizzt is the only one to guard his virginity. On the other hand, we have a clear indication in What's-it's-name Salvatore's novel, that Cattie-Brie does not lay with Wulfgar during their fiance-ing. I think, that anywhere, where the institution of marriage exist, the concept of the husband being the first woman's lover as something of special importance can be suggested within the resonable doubts.

What about Anomen? He seems to have no issues about making <CHARNAME> 'impure and unmarriable'.

[Domi]

ANomen is... Anomen. He sounds like a virgin himself trying to get a woman into his bed by any means (whining, boasting, whatever it takes). he is one of those guys, to whom it is easier to give, than to explain why not. I was shocked, when I played the 'romance' and my character told Anomen that she does not care for him one way or another, but she'd sleep with him, and he *agreed*, expressing a shady hope that she'd love him some other time, in the distant future. After which he promptly shagged her and never spoke to her again. However, it was important for him that she told him she loved him, when he was holding a sword to the throats of two innocent children. That's so... neither knightly, nor noble.

 

To me the biggest selling point of Jastey's Ajantis Romance is that it has much more similarity to the traditional ideas of nobless of spirit, love and chivalry than Anomen's.

[Grim Squeaker]

So has the issue has now become 'is sex-before-marriage an issue in FR at all', instead of 'is sex-before-marriage an issue for religious orders in FR'? Without some evidence of the customs surrounding FR marriages, I think the only answer is that it depends on the code of ethics of the person in question.

[Domi]

Without some evidence of the customs surrounding FR marriages, I think the only answer is that it depends on the code of ethics of the person in question.

 

I agree absolutely. The question has been resolved long ago, really. For me it always was about Ajantis, as a character, rather than a universal law. Those who are curious about the way Jastey had solved that in the relationship, are invited to play the romance once it is released, and see for themselves if it works for them or not

[Western Paladin]

Remember poor, doomed Sir Lancelot in The Once and Future King? He was almost the best knight in the world. And he certainly wasn't married to Lady Guinevere. (I know, different world and all. You know what I mean.)

 

Slightly off topic,

 

To me the biggest selling point of Jastey's Ajantis Romance is that it has much more similarity to the traditional ideas of nobless of spirit, love and chivalry than Anomen's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Sounds encouraging. Yesterday I was feeling very eager for the Dynaheir romance (her alternate portrait in the portrait pack is positively soaked with the exotic air of the steppe), but I'll definitely unearth my female elf fighter/thief character concept and give this one a whirl.

[Kulyok]

To me the biggest selling point of Jastey's Ajantis Romance is that it has much more similarity to the traditional ideas of nobless of spirit, love and chivalry than Anomen's.

 

I've attentively read all lovetalks, as well, and what I liked best was how alive and realistic Ajantis was. Perhaps that was because I have a friend from Germany, whose behaviour is frighteningly like Ajantis'.

 

Anyway, Western Paladin, make sure to play into Ajantis romance as far as possible - you'll probably get a few giggles on this very subject discussed here, if you know what I mean. I myself was laughing like mad (in a good way, of course), and I think Jastey's made a very nice solution (won't spoil, though).

[Domi]

seconded