SCS v31 Release Candidate (Now No. 3) Now Available for Testing

[DavidW]

 

(At a guess, it's collateral damage from the infuriating ASSASSIN/ASSASIN issue, i.e. from that fact that Bioware couldn't spell "Assassin" back in the day.)

According to v31 change log, this issue has been fixed, so it must be something else.......

 

Issues like this are often like the bump under the carpet. Apparent fixes sometimes just push the bump somewhere else...

[Luke]

 

 

(At a guess, it's collateral damage from the infuriating ASSASSIN/ASSASIN issue, i.e. from that fact that Bioware couldn't spell "Assassin" back in the day.)

According to v31 change log, this issue has been fixed, so it must be something else.......

Issues like this are often like the bump under the carpet. Apparent fixes sometimes just push the bump somewhere else...

I see.

 

Well, in v31 Carbos and Shank (dunno about the other Assassins) have Poison Weapon memorized, so you may wanna check your latest commits.....

[bob_veng]

 

Having said that, it's a curious decision on the part of Beamdog to make them assassins,

At a certain level, I kinda become inured to all sorts of random crap being blamed on Beamdog and/or the EEs, and I was fully prepared to dismiss this as same. But damn if this isn't true, and damn if I can find the ticket and/or justification.

 

I do know where the ticket to change them back to bogstandard mooks is, though, since I just filed it.

i wouldn't mind them working as actual assassins with poison weapon, i think it would excuse their sorry existence a bit more... after all they made it in to candlekeep, so they must be at least a tiny bit ninja. it's probably most reasonable to just step outside and let the guarts take care of them anyway

They literally use an item called DAGGSHIT which does 1d2-1 (yes, minus one). They're meant to be tutorial-level threats.

 

I know, but I don't like it, since there are actual tutorials in candlekeep and you don't get anything particular from these encounters tutorial-wise. With this change it actually would be a good tutorial on "choose your battles" and on "enemies follow you through doors"

[Mad Mate]

Well, in v31 Carbos and Shank (dunno about the other Assassins) have Poison Weapon memorized, so you may wanna check your latest commits.....

Something else messed your install. Just installed SCS v31 on BGT and Carbos & Shank are still fighters and don't have any spell memorized. And have DAGGSHIT on them.

Just remembered, maybe BGEE changed them to assassins and they get poison weapon. If it is a case, that is not SCS fault.

you can fix it by puting this line near end of initial\initial.tpa:

 

LAF edit_creature STR_VAR creature=~%tutu_var%carbos %tutu_var%shank~ editstring=~kit=>NONE~ allow_missing=1 END

Edited September 27, 2018 by Mad Mate

[subtledoctor]

 

 

i wouldn't mind them working as actual assassins with poison weapon, i think it would excuse their sorry existence a bit more... after all they made it in to candlekeep, so they must be at least a tiny bit ninja. it's probably most reasonable to just step outside and let the guarts take care of them anyway

They literally use an item called DAGGSHIT which does 1d2-1 (yes, minus one). They're meant to be tutorial-level threats.

I know, but I don't like it, since there are actual tutorials in candlekeep and you don't get anything particular from these encounters tutorial-wise. With this change it actually would be a good tutorial on "choose your battles" and on "enemies follow you through doors"

I disagree - a random shot with a poisoned weapon at this stage would simply mean instant death unless you metagame and 1) run away from the poisoned weapons even though you have no in-game way to know the weapons are poisoned; or 2) first go all the way to the bottom of the map to get a healing potion, even though that makes no sense from a geographical standpoint. Dying to a poisoned weapon in Candlekeep would be annoying and frustrating, more than interesting and fun.

 

If these guys are to use poison against you then you should be furnished with a healing potion and an antidote - maybe have the storekeep give you one of each for free. If we're talking about how the encounters perform as tutorials, this would give you a valuable lesson in how potions can help you mid-combat.

[bob_veng]

yeah, I wanted to add the same about potions, but I didn't want to theory-mod-craft too much, on such an esoteric non-issue. with all that said however, assassin carbos & shank + relevant potions would indeed be very good.

[DavidW]

While of course I am open to feedback on any and all aspects of SCS, I think I can guarantee that you are not going to persuade me to give poison weapons to tutorial-level mooks.

[Luke]

 

Well, in v31 Carbos and Shank (dunno about the other Assassins) have Poison Weapon memorized, so you may wanna check your latest commits.....

Something else messed your install. Just installed SCS v31 on BGT and Carbos & Shank are still fighters and don't have any spell memorized. And have DAGGSHIT on them.

Just remembered, maybe BGEE changed them to assassins and they get poison weapon. If it is a case, that is not SCS fault.

you can fix it by puting this line near end of initial\initial.tpa:

LAF edit_creature STR_VAR creature=~%tutu_var%carbos %tutu_var%shank~ editstring=~kit=>FIGHTER~ allow_missing=1 END

What are you saying exactly?

 

In BGEE Carbos and Shank are coded as Assassins.

 

In SCS v31 they're given ASSASSIN_POISON (correct). In SCS master branch they are not given ASSASSIN_POISON, so there is something wrong.....

Edited September 27, 2018 by Luke

[subtledoctor]

In SCS v31 they're given ASSASSIN_POISON (correct). In SCS master branch they are not given ASSASSIN_POISON, so there is something wrong.....

Sounds like Davidw removed it on purpose.

[bob_veng]

While of course I am open to feedback on any and all aspects of SCS, I think I can guarantee that you are not going to persuade me to give poison weapons to tutorial-level mooks.

 

poison weapon has been nerfed in more recent EE. 1 dam / 2 seconds for 12 seconds with save, non-stacking. that means that 2x potions of healing or 1x healing and 1x antidote should ~99% ensure that you stay alive. poison effects are not something inappropriate for lower levels, because, thematically, it's a mundane thing that is to be expected of assassins and people of that sort. you make it sound like they are summoning a planetar (unnerfed poison weapon, however, would be halfway there).

 

i mean we traditionally see poison effects as something very nasty that's seen later in the game, and poison weapon as some powerful ability, but thematically there's no reason to see it that way

 

another thing is - it would be nice to meet some low level enemies who have a kit, because ever since BG got it's makeover with kits and BG2 stuff, very little of that has propagated organically within the actual content

Edited September 27, 2018 by bob_veng

[Luke]

 

In SCS v31 they're given ASSASSIN_POISON (correct). In SCS master branch they are not given ASSASSIN_POISON, so there is something wrong.....

Sounds like Davidw removed it on purpose.

Yeah, it's possible I didn't notice they have been changed into plain fighters...... I'll double check that.....

[DavidW]

 

In SCS v31 they're given ASSASSIN_POISON (correct). In SCS master branch they are not given ASSASSIN_POISON, so there is something wrong.....

Sounds like Davidw removed it on purpose.

 

Not quite.

 

I think it is silly for Carbos and Shank to get assassin powers, I don't do it intentionally, and I will specifically block it in v32.

However, I didn't actually remove it (because I didn't know Beamdog had given them the Assassin flag) and so SCS, if working correctly, ought to make them assassins. So the fact that they're not indicates a (low-priority) bug in the master-branch update I made.

[DavidW]

 

Well, in v31 Carbos and Shank (dunno about the other Assassins) have Poison Weapon memorized, so you may wanna check your latest commits.....

Something else messed your install. Just installed SCS v31 on BGT and Carbos & Shank are still fighters and don't have any spell memorized. And have DAGGSHIT on them.

Just remembered, maybe BGEE changed them to assassins and they get poison weapon. If it is a case, that is not SCS fault.

you can fix it by puting this line near end of initial\initial.tpa:

 

LAF edit_creature STR_VAR creature=~%tutu_var%carbos %tutu_var%shank~ editstring=~kit=>FIGHTER~ allow_missing=1 END

 

That will probably throw an error: FIGHTER isn't a kit (specifically, isn't in kit.ids), and the CRE_kit function that's being called in that patch does its lookup in kit.ids.

 

You want kit=>trueclass or kit=>none.

[Mad Mate]

What are you saying exactly?

 

In BGEE Carbos and Shank are coded as Assassins.

 

In SCS v31 they're given ASSASSIN_POISON (correct). In SCS master branch they are not given ASSASSIN_POISON, so there is something wrong.....

Then, I misunderstood you, sorry. I thought that you don't want for them to be assassins and not to receive poison.

 

That will probably throw an error: FIGHTER isn't a kit (specifically, isn't in kit.ids), and the CRE_kit function that's being called in that patch does its lookup in kit.ids.

 

You want kit=>trueclass or kit=>none.

Yeah, you are right, I was in hurry to work and wrote that from my head, as example. In my game (BGT) Carbos & Shank kit is NONE. I'll edit previous post so it doesn't mislead anyone and break their game.

 

BTW, I have one question for you. Does 2da files in stratagems\genai\hla_choices\ work?

Ie, rock.cre from override_warrior.2da doesn't get any of hla's written there and kensai's don't have hlas from core or refinements 2da's. Is it arbitrary or they should get those spells?

BTW, thank you for SCS!

[DavidW]

BTW, I have one question for you. Does 2da files in stratagems\genai\hla_choices\ work?

Ie, rock.cre from override_warrior.2da doesn't get any of hla's written there and kensai's don't have hlas from core or refinements 2da's. Is it arbitrary or they should get those spells?

BTW, thank you for SCS!

I don't know (and this sort of thing is one reason I'm keeping some distance from the maintenance release). My local version has evolved quite a long way from that version.