SCS v31 Release Candidate (Now No. 3) Now Available for Testing

[Luke]

With the exception of Improved Shapeshifting (and possibly antimagic attacks penetrate improved invisibility?), those options are there for if you *don't* already have IR/SR installed, so I'm not really sure what the problem is.

Well, if you don't have IR/SR installed, you're probably not interested in those components.....

 

Anyway, yes, it's not a big issue....

Or, rather, I don't remember exactly why @subtledoctor complained about this.....

[Bartimaeus]

I'm not sure that's true. SR and IR are big mods that overhaul everything to do with items and spells - I can easily see some people being off-put by that but not necessarily the smaller common sense tweaks SCS offers.

[subtledoctor]

I think some clarification is in order. I never "complained," and I never said the tweaks in the mods first 4 categories shouldn't exist. I simply said that it's slightly incongruous for them to coexist with the AI and improved encounters in a single monolithic mod. They differ in aim, scope, and application. As a result SCS has the feel of being two things in one: a big tweak mod and a big AI/encounter mod, glued together.

 

Separation doesn't mean casting those tweaks away, just because there are other simikar mods out there. "SCS Tweaks" could surely coexist with CDTweaks, and SR/IR, and Scales of Balance, and FPPS, etc.

 

* (Well, I've opined that the various "symbolic paw" shapeshifter mods should be consigned to oblivion, but that's a different conversation. )

Edited September 3, 2018 by subtledoctor

[DavidW]

I have some time for this suggestion, but it’s more complicated than it looks.

 

Some of SCS’s tweaks perfectly well could live elsewhere (i.e. in tweaks) and in due course could do so. Various NPC and ease-of-use things, in particular. You’ll notice that those components are mostly for BG1; the fact that they’re there in the first place reflects the fact that when SCS was released as a mod for BG1TUTU there were only fairly minimal tweak mods around (and also the fact that as someone then completely new to the modding scene I didn’t have the reputation to get my content into TutuTweaks that easily).

 

The spell and item tweaks are more closely integrated with the AI than they might look, and have a radically different design philosophy from SR/IR. Those mods say, “let’s do a root-and-branch, systematic, rebalancing of the whole item and spell system”, and they do a pretty good job of it, but that level of change is too radical for some people, and in particular it’s too radical for my own personal playstyle. SCS starts by trying to give effective AI in the context of the existing system, and for the most part, only tweaks it when something is either completely broken (or can be broken by a clever opponent) or where there’s a PC strategy I can’t effectively counter. Some examples:

 

1) Skull Trap damage caps at 20d6. In a Sequencer, that’s an AoE spell that averages 210 points of damage. (Compare with 90, of the same type, from Horrid Wilting). That’s so brutally good that sensible necromancy-inclined spellcasters would use it all the time, but it’s no fun for the party to keep being hit by it. So I have to choose between (a) spoiling immersion by intentionally avoiding a perfectly legit strategy, (b) making things un-fun, or © tweaking the spell.

 

2) As Tactics demonstrated long ago, the combination of Improved Invisibility, Spell Immunity: Divination and Protection from Magic Weapons is basically unbreakable by “normal” means (i.e. by a party that doesn’t have one of a very specific list of abilities). The SR solution is to completely replace the spell. SCS’s more minimal approach is to let anti magic work through improved invisibility, which to be sure has substantial “emergent” effects but doesn’t change the face-value functioning of the individual spells much.

 

So: thematically SCS’s item and spell tweaks are pretty much all themed around supporting the AI, so I’m not inclined to move them. The spell tweaks, in particular, are so integrated into SCS’s AI that there’s an argument I should make a bit clearer in the install process how much they’re recommended (on non-SR installs at any rate).

[subtledoctor]

Yeah it's really just the item and gameplay tweaks that sometimes veer into the realm of 'random extra tweak ideas'

[Luke]

I simply said that it's slightly incongruous for them to coexist with the AI and improved encounters in a single monolithic mod. They differ in aim, scope, and application. As a result SCS has the feel of being two things in one: a big tweak mod and a big AI/encounter mod, glued together.

Exactly! Thanks for the clarification......

[Luke]

The spell tweaks, in particular, are so integrated into SCSs AI that theres an argument I should make a bit clearer in the install process how much theyre recommended (on non-SR installs at any rate).

Yes, it'd be nice if you could provide further details about how much your "optional" tweaks are recommended........ Edited September 8, 2018 by Luke

[CamDawg]

It looks like we're still having troubles with beholders in RC3; from Beamdog forums:

 

Just so I'm not misunderstanding: RC3 is the version available for download at https://github.com/Gibberlings3/SwordCoastStratagems/releases/tag/v31_RC3 , correct? Because I've downloaded it and am still getting install failure on Improved Beholders (which then cascades into some other components failing to install). Everything else seems to install fine on v2.5.

[Anprionsa]

Not sure if this is directly related, I've seen other threads on this topic with kits and SCS, but I wanted to share if others had insight on this problem, if it is with SCS.

 

Just a sample of the SCS "error"

 

Input file is stratagems/genai/ssl/dw#melee.ssl

Output file is stratagems_external\workspace\ssl_out/dw#melee.baf
Copying 1 file ...
Compiling 1 script ...
Copying and patching 1 file ...
Copying and patching 1 file ...

Warning: it looks as if some entry that should be a key=>value list, isn't (~list~ is currently %RESREF_QD_MCM03_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM04_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM05_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM06_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM07_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM08_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM09_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM10_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM11_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM12_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM13_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM14_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM15_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM16_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM17_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM18_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM19_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM20_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE%, key=%RESREF_QD_MCM01_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE%)
Appending to files ...

Warning: it looks as if some entry that should be a key=>value list, isn't (~list~ is currently %RESREF_QD_MCM06_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM07_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM08_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM09_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM10_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM11_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM12_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM13_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM14_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM15_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM16_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM17_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM18_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM19_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM20_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE%, key=%RESREF_QD_MCM04_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE%)
Appending to files ...

Warning: it looks as if some entry that should be a key=>value list, isn't (~list~ is currently %RESREF_QD_MCM09_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM10_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM11_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM12_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM13_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM14_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM15_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM16_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM17_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM18_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM19_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM20_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE%, key=%RESREF_QD_MCM07_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE%)
Appending to files ...

Warning: it looks as if some entry that should be a key=>value list, isn't (~list~ is currently %RESREF_QD_MCM12_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM13_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM14_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM15_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM16_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM17_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM18_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM19_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM20_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE%, key=%RESREF_QD_MCM10_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE%)
Appending to files ...

Warning: it looks as if some entry that should be a key=>value list, isn't (~list~ is currently %RESREF_QD_MCM15_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM16_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM17_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM18_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM19_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM20_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE%, key=%RESREF_QD_MCM13_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE%)
Appending to files ...

Warning: it looks as if some entry that should be a key=>value list, isn't (~list~ is currently %RESREF_QD_MCM18_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM19_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE% %RESREF_QD_MCM20_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE%, key=%RESREF_QD_MCM16_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE%)
Appending to files ...

Warning: it looks as if some entry that should be a key=>value list, isn't (~list~ is currently , key=%RESREF_QD_MCM19_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE%)
Appending to files ...
FAILURE:
Unable to parse %RESREF_QD_MCM03_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE%

Failed to apply general-AI patch to 3303GRD1 (error message Failure("Unable to parse %RESREF_QD_MCM03_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE%"))

Failed to apply general-AI patch to 3303GRD1 (error message Failure("Unable to parse %RESREF_QD_MCM03_KIT_EFFECTS_REMOVE%"))
Appending to files...

 

 

And this shows up again for 2 mods later.

 

ERROR: cannot convert kit_code or %kit_code% to an integer
ERROR: [override/QD_MCM01.spl] -> [override] Patching Failed (COPY) (Not_found)
ERROR: [C0SADEPT.2da] -> [override] Patching Failed (COPY) (Not_found)
ERROR: Not_found
Shadow Magic (Shadow Magic (NEW)) was not installed due to errors.

 

ERROR: cannot convert al_code or %al_code% to an integer
ERROR: [might_and_guile/feats/d5_rfc1.spl] -> [override] Patching Failed (COPY) (Not_found)

Might and Guile

 

The problem is that I've tried probably 30 different installs to test this issue and I cannot find the culprit mod. I've tested just a few mods, multiple large installs, targeted installs.

 

Any ideas?

 

 

 

EE-Debug-Installation.7z

[subtledoctor]

@Anprionsa can you post your Weidu.log? I'd like to see which mods with multiclass kits you're using. The main version of the qd_multi library cause problems for SCS, but (I think) I've updated my mods to fix the problem.

 

Long story short this needs an update from other mods, not SCS. (But, if SCS moves to using a whitelist of kit abilities applied to the AI - I guess in v32? - then this won't be an issue anymore.)

Edited September 4, 2018 by subtledoctor

[Anprionsa]

Sure thing, I deleted that install because it was a piecemeal install. But let me do a complete and when it's done I'll post the logs.

[Mad Mate]

Culprit is Foundling, and it's new multiclass feature.

I had same error, but I didn't investigate any further, because that feature doesn't work in classic BGT anyway.

I just disabled it ("// "before "INCLUDE ~Foundling/lib/qd_multiclass.tpa~") in install.tph of Foundling mod.

Don't know why it throws error in SCS, maybe something new from EE's that SCS doesn't recognize yet.

[AL|EN]

It looks like we're still having troubles with beholders in RC3; from Beamdog forums:

 

Just so I'm not misunderstanding: RC3 is the version available for download at https://github.com/Gibberlings3/SwordCoastStratagems/releases/tag/v31_RC3 , correct? Because I've downloaded it and am still getting install failure on Improved Beholders (which then cascades into some other components failing to install). Everything else seems to install fine on v2.5.

 

False alarm. After restoring the game, installation went fine.

[Anprionsa]

Here are the logs

 

Installation logs

 

WeiDu

[Anprionsa]

@Mad Mate

 

That's interesting. I've seen that name pop up in my installs before with having some common files between it and the other mods that are having issues.