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Cleric Kits


CamDawg

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For the Riddlemaster, I see a lot of advantages but no disadvantages... unless the riddles are supposed to replace the bard song?

 

Yeah, the riddles will be activated by / replacing the bard song.

 

For speciality priests, if they gain a new domain spell per spell level, won't that be a bit overpowering? The three kits already in-game do not have that many new spells / abilities due to their speciality status.

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One way to add sufficient penalties for the domain spells would be to give clerics one less spell per level. One thing I've never like about BG2 is that there are no disadvantages to playing a kitted cleric compared to the vanilla cleric.

 

For the riddlemaster, the bard song icon has many irritating, hard-coded features. It may be easier to disable the bard song and handle the riddles as innate abilities.

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For the riddlemaster, the bard song icon has many irritating, hard-coded features. It may be easier to disable the bard song and handle the riddles as innate abilities.

Can't it be done using a different Bard Song icon for each riddle à la Icewind Dale? Although implementing the x times/day might be rather difficult. :)

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My (admittedly limited) experince trying to change interface buttons is that it doesn't work since they're all hardcoded. You can disable a few buttons via spells/scripting, but the bard song is not one of them.

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Yeah giving them one less spell should work well.  Now we just have to figure out exactly what these IWDII kits would do in BG2 and add any new spells accordingly.  Actually on second thoughts why don't we add ALL the domain spells in (even the ones that are already there - although their effect wouldn't change at all) but with the IWDII icons.  Because then at least when the bring up your level X domain spells then they are of the same icon style.

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Ok I've found a potential problem.  IWDII clerics obviously can use non-blunt weapons and this is reflected in the kits:

e.g. Battleguard of Tempus:

 

Automatically gains Martial Weapon: Axe and Weapon Focus: Axe feats

 

Which would convert to an automatic profiency in axes except clerics can't use axes!

 

This means we need to have a check to see if Ashes of Embers generic weapon requirements is installed and if it isn't then we need to allow clerics to use non-blunt weapons by using similar code to Ashes of Embers.

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I disagree. While I think we should certainly include compatibility with AoE, I don't think it should be installed as a matter of course for the kits. For the clerics with bladed proficiencies, I say they either get dropped or changed to a blunt weapon--though if AoE is installed, then they would get proper bladed proficiencies.

 

I just don't like the idea of requiring a rules change for someone who wants to try new kits. If they want the rule changes inluded in AoE, then we'll work on compatibility with it.

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I disagree. While I think we should certainly include compatibility with AoE, I don't think it should be installed as a matter of course for the kits. For the clerics with bladed proficiencies, I say they either get dropped or changed to a blunt weapon--though if AoE is installed, then they would get proper bladed proficiencies.

 

I just don't like the idea of requiring a rules change for someone who wants to try new kits. If they want the rule changes inluded in AoE, then we'll work on compatibility with it.

I guess we need to change the profiencies then. How about change the Battleguard's profiency to Flail if AoE isn't installed?

 

Are you cool about the new Talos, Lathander and Helm kits replacing the old ones though?

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Something else to consider--strongholds...

 

It shouldn't be a huge problem, however.  You could assign a stronghold to the different kits depending on alignments (whether it be good/evil or lawful/chaotic) or perhaps by similarities in portfolios.  Many of the gods have alliances that fall outside of these similarities, however, so there are quite a few ways you could go about it...

 

Just something to consider, but don't let it be a detriment to the production of the mod.

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Just for fun, realize that even in 2nd Edition Dungeons and Dragons (which BG II is based on), many of the kits for gods, especially the more martial ones like Tempus and the Red Knight did allow full use of weapons to their followers, not just limited to the crushing limit of clerics.

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I think the Lathander, Helm and Talos kits would have to change, but we'll need to issue the proper warnings of course. I was also thinking of flails for the Tempus kit. I guess we could give the kit a single star in flails to start and the potential for specialization.

 

For the strongholds, that would be something to worry about a bit later down the road. My inital reaction would be to use alignment breakdowns (except for the actual temple kits): good, neutral, evil, or the alternative alignment breakdowns used with Oversight.

 

edit: some cross-posting... using non-standard item restrictions is probably the single most difficult part of kit coding, which is another reason why I would like to keep usability restricted to generic cleric weapons.

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One more item... doesn't AoE include a grip of cleric kits already? We're going to run into the hard-coded limit if both are installed, though I'm assuming they're a separate component.

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One more item... doesn't AoE include a grip of cleric kits already? We're going to run into the hard-coded limit if both are installed, though I'm assuming they're a separate component.

Yeah but each of them is a seperate component. And I think I'll uninstall them if we make this mod for two really good reasons:

 

1) These kits look pretty damn fun.

2) Ghrey made up the gods in AoE! They were designed for Embers of Empires and aren't canon FW deities.

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Are you cool about the new Talos, Lathander and Helm kits replacing the old ones though?

I'd say to let the Talos, Lathander and Helm kits be - they're already in the game, properly balanced and working fine. Or, if you want to add new kits for them, make those an optional component during the installing procedures.

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Are you cool about the new Talos, Lathander and Helm kits replacing the old ones though?

I'd say to let the Talos, Lathander and Helm kits be - they're already in the game, properly balanced and working fine. Or, if you want to add new kits for them, make those an optional component during the installing procedures.

Of course they'll be optional. Each kit will be an optional component so you can mix and match with other mods like AoE.

 

The basic ones are balanced? They have no disadvantages!

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