Meira Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 In fact I was thinking... because one of the most useful thing about clerics is their healing/resurrection abilities, those priest kits who have minor or no access to the Healing and/or Necromantic spheres should probably have some suitably powerful ability to make up for it. Agreed. Though by the midway of ToB I'm usually so well stacked with healing potions and have couple of resurrection rods that the priests healing ability comes less necessary and the ability to cast protective spells comes more important. So perhaps something that would be most useful early in the game. -Meira Link to comment
BevH Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Well according to official sources, Mystra is one of thoese gods that allows worshippers of any alignment. There are no alignment restrictions when it comes to the use of magic after all I put Detect magic there without really thinking about it, because that's what they have in pnp. I agree it's not very useful though, so if it we go with a spiritual weapon I'd suggest a quarterstaff. What about 1% magic resistance per level? That way it won't really be too high even by the end of ToB. Failing that, perhaps +2 saves vs. spells instead? Priests of Mystra in pnp are allowed to use any wizard item except scrolls. Now this would be rather unbalancing at lower levels, so would a "Use Mage Items" HLA (seeing as Thiefs have "Use Any Item") be posible to do? Yep, 1-3 sounds good. For the Priest of Kossuth alone it means no Free Action, Cloak of Fear, Cure Serious Wounds, Cause Serious Wounds, Neutralize Poison, Lesser Restoration, Dispel Magic, Remove Curse or Remove Paralysis (on top of the ones they already couldn't have), so you may want to add another advantage to make up for all of those. In fact I was thinking... because one of the most useful thing about clerics is their healing/resurrection abilities, those priest kits who have minor or no access to the Healing and/or Necromantic spheres should probably have some suitably powerful ability to make up for it. Actually, Mystra's followers, according to Faiths and Pantheons, are CG, LE, LG, LN, NG. What about leaving Magic Resistance at 2%, but only gained every 4 levels? Link to comment
NiGHTMARE Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Faiths and Pantheons is 3rd Edition though, not 2nd Edition.  This list shows the allowed alignments for worshippers of all the human deities in 2E. 2% magic resistance every 4 levels seems a bit too weak - only 20% resistance at level 40? 1% per level seems as though it should be okay, and it's the same as a Wizard Slayer so it's very easy to implement. BTW, I just found an on-line copy of the Complete Priest's Handbook, which should prove useful.  Especially the page about Spheres of Influence. Also, if were' sticking with pnp as closely as possible, I found something (in the 2nd Edition Player's Handbook Rules Supplement) that we should bear in mind: Innate abilities may not be derived from wizard spells of fifth level or higher, or from priest spells of fourth level or higher.  Obviously our innate 'replacement spells' are okay, but anything other than that isn't. Priests' innate abilities may be derived from wizard spells of the schools of: - Abjuration - Alteration - Charm - Divination - Invocation - Necromancy They may also be derived from priest spells from the spheres of: - All - Animal - Charm - Creation - Divination - Guardian - Healing - Plant - Protection - Sun - Weather Priests' innate abilities may not be derived from wizard spells of the schools of: - Conjuration, Summoning, or Conjuration/Summoning - Enchantment (spells listed as Enchantment/Charm are permissible, but those listed as belonging to Enchantment and any other school are not) - Illusion or Illusion/Phantasm - Evocation (if a spell can belong to the school of Evocation, it cannot be taken as a granted power even if it can be used by other schools).  Neither may they be derived from priest spells of the spheres of: - Astral - Combat (even if a spell belongs to Combat and one other sphere, as shillelagh belongs to Combat and Plant, it cannot be used to make a Granted Power) - Elemental - Necromantic - Summoning Hmm, it looks like all that is in the Complete Priest's Handbook too Link to comment
icelus Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Just a quick, off-topic post to say "Welcome, NiGHTMARE!" Link to comment
Andyr Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 NiGHTMARE: 1% MR per level sounds good. Also, adding in the Spirit Weapon ability (shuriken, make it like a retuning dart) too. I'm not too bothered about the loss of high-level healing spells for the Clerics- if you want a healer, pick a healing god rather than a destructive one. As for the stuff on innates, I think that's probably a bit complex to keep checking so we should go with stuff that seems ok to us. I've bookmarked that link. I'm also making a spreadsheet of various stuff, I'll email or attach it somewhere when we've got lots of it done. Personally, Shar, Kossuth and Tempus would be my priorities for the various mods that have already started! Link to comment
Andyr Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 On the subject of alignments: 2E and 3E appear to differ for a few gods (Kossuth, Mystra). Going with the less-restrictive 2E here seems better perhaps. What do people think of the not-TN-unless-the-God-is rule? Ok, or should be dropped and left as standard one-step? Link to comment
NiGHTMARE Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 I dunno, it seems to me that most TN gods would probably be less restrictive in the alignment of their followers than usual, rather than more-so. BTW, regular (i.e. non-speciality) Clerics in BG2 are only restricted from the spheres of animal, plant and weather. However, in pnp they normally also have no access to the spheres of chaos, elemental air, elemental fire, law, numbers, sun, thought, war or wards either, and only have minor access to the elemental earth and elemental water spheres. Perhaps it'd be worth implementing this too, so selecting a deity offers alternate selections of spheres than a cleric without a deity would have (rather than just being a more restricted version of them). If we did, it would mean that non-speciality clerics are no longer be able to cast Charm Person or Mammal, Miscast Magic, Flame Blade, Rigid Thinking, Strength of One, Zone of Sweet Air, Defensive Harmony, Mental Domination, Chaotic Commands, Champion's Strength, Physical Mirror, False Dawn, Sol's Searing Orb, Fire Storm, Sunray or Finger of Death. Which sounds good to me Link to comment
CamDawg Posted January 31, 2004 Author Share Posted January 31, 2004 Definitely less restrictive for TN; probably the one-step-out rule (aka bard alignment restrictions). Link to comment
Andyr Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 NiGHTMARE: Yes, that sounds good, if you reckon we can pull it off. We'll have to add Animal, Plant and Weather in for some of them too then! CamDawg: I'm not sure you see what I mean- for example, Lathander is NG. So his Clerics can be LG, NG, and CG. Should we allow TN too? If we don't do that, then only a few deities (TN ones like Gond, Oghma, Kossuth) will be able to have TN priests. Link to comment
CamDawg Posted January 31, 2004 Author Share Posted January 31, 2004 Ah, sorry, I think I'm answering the question backwards. I thought we were deciding if TN gods such as Oghma would take NG, NE, LN, and CN in addition to TN. In that case, I say yes. In regards to Lathander and other semi-neutral deities, I don't have aproblem with them also taking TN clerics, unless there's a good RP reason not to. Link to comment
Andyr Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 I don't think there's any good reason, 3E just doesn't seem to like TN Clerics. So we could do whatever. Link to comment
Andyr Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 I have been using the following site for some info on spheres and stuff: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2596/00Deities.html There are problems: 1. I do not see any mention of the Chaos or Numbers spheres... 2. It does not have info for all the gods there. Can anyone point me to a more complete reference point? Link to comment
NiGHTMARE Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Faiths and Avatars is what you want, available from your friendly neighbour file sharing program Link to comment
NiGHTMARE Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Watchers of Helm Alignment: LG, LN, N Race: Any Advantages: Can cast Spiritual Weapon creating a mace once per day. The powers vary with level: At level 1 it is a normal mace, level 5 it is +1, level 10 it is +2, level 15 it is +3, level 20 it is +5, level 25 it is +5. Can create a Glyph of Warding once per day Gains Armour as an innate at level 1. Gains Detect Invisibility as an innate at level 3. Gains Ghost Armour as an innate at level 5. Gains Farsight as an innate at level 7. Gains Protection from Normal Weapons as an innate at level 9. Gains True Sight as an innate at level 11. Gains Mantle as an innate at level 13. Disadvantages: Can memorise one less spell of each level. Can only cast level 1, 2, and 3 spells from the Creation, Elemental, Healing and War spheres. Cannot cast any spells from the Animal, Chaos, Charm, Law, Necromantic, Numbers, Plant, Summoning, Thought and Weather spheres. Link to comment
Andyr Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Yes, that is good. Except Helm's favoured weapon is a Bastard Sword, not a mace- also LE should be allowed. As for Faiths and Avatars, I can't find a copy. Can you send me it if you have it? Link to comment
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