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Bartimaeus

SR Revised V1.2.3 (2020 February 8th)

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Waves of Fatigue adds "+7 fatigue" via the fatigue opcode. 7 fatigue appears to be a -1 luck penalty, since my base THAC0 dropped from 8 to 7 (checked via actually making multiple attack rolls). If this was meant to be a -7 luck penalty, that's, uh, not how the fatigue opcode appears to work, :p. The fatigue opcode does seem to allow a temporary duration - cast the spell on myself (after changing the projectile to affect everyone), then waited for the fatigued icon to disappear, and my THAC0 went back up to 8. What's really weird is that when I cast the spell upon myself twice or more, my THAC0 gets all screwy - from a consistent 7 (after the initial casting) to 4 on my first attack, 1 on my second, 0 on my third, 7 on my fourth, 2 on my fifth, etc. Don't know how it's calculating my base THAC0 there when the amount of fatigue should not be changing. Anyways, yeah, I'm thinking this spell may need to "simulate" fatigue rather than actually use the fatigue opcode.

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What's really weird is that when I cast the spell upon myself twice or more, my THAC0 gets all screwy - from a consistent 7 (after the initial casting) to 4 on my first attack, 1 on my second, 0 on my third, 7 on my fourth, 2 on my fifth, etc. Don't know how it's calculating my base THAC0 there when the amount of fatigue should not be changing. Anyways, yeah, I'm thinking this spell may need to "simulate" fatigue rather than actually use the fatigue opcode.

Luck will not reduce the effective roll below 1 (or increase it above 20), so the displayed adjustment will depend on your base roll.

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Ahh, thank you very much. Based on that, I would guess you can have a maximum of 6 fatigue without penalty, and every one after that adds a -1 luck penalty. In other words, the first casting of this spell is nearly useless, but a second casting is overwhelmingly powerful. Yeah, I just don't think that's very good design. I'm going to more or less leave it as is for the time being, since I don't want to figure out how to redesign it at the moment - hopefully subtledoctor and kreso can figure something out (and subtledoctor already had a pretty neat concept already).

Edited by Bartimaeus

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A In other words, the first casting of this spell is nearly useless, but a second casting is overwhelmingly powerful.

This is how it is supposed to work due balancing issues. To get the most out of this spell, you need to spend at least two level 5

slots.

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In other words, when the AI casts it expecting it to be Chaos, it gets virtually nothing out of it, while the player can use two mages to cast it twice upon a group of enemies at the same time (or three times), and those enemies are basically completely disabled for five rounds. I'm just not seeing the wisdom of this design. It's very strange to require the spell to be cast multiple times to have any material effect. I could see casting multiple times to enhance the effect, but the initial casting is just so weak.

 

V1.00g released:

  1. Now on github, per c4_angel's request (and provided little better install instructions in the first post).
  2. Fixed Vitriolic Sphere, now should work as per description: "When this spell is cast, a glowing orb of emerald acid streaks towards the target and explodes, drenching everyone within a 10' radius in potent acid. Each creature in the area immediately suffers 1D4 acid damage for each level of experience of the caster, up to a maximum of 10D4 at 10th level. After the initial round, those covered in the sphere's acid continue to suffer two less dice of acid damage in the following rounds. For example, an 8th-level wizard inflicts 8D4 damage with this spell in the first round, 6D4 in the second round, 4D4 in the third round, and 2D4 in the fourth round. During each round except the first, those affected can make a save vs. breath at a -2 penalty to reduce that round's damage by half and avoid further damage in any remaining rounds."
  3. Very temporary, quick and dirty re-design of Waves of Fatigue: "Surges of negative energy render all hostile living creatures in the spell's area fatigued, as if they haven't rested for a day. While fatigued, they suffer a -2 penalty to luck, movement rate, casting speed, and speed factor. Multiple castings of this spell are not cumulative." Not final at all - just meant to make it semi-functional. Lasts 1 turn.
Edited by Bartimaeus

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In other words, when the AI casts it expecting it to be Chaos, it gets virtually nothing out of it, while the player can use two mages to cast it twice upon a group of enemies at the same time (or three times), and those enemies are basically completely disabled for five rounds. I'm just not seeing the wisdom of this design. It's very strange to require the spell to be cast multiple times to have any material effect. I could see casting multiple times to enhance the effect, but the initial casting is just so weak.

It's only useless if the party just rested, it will stack with any natural fatigue they have accumulated (or from haste, if it still applies fatigue).

Non-party creatures do not naturally incur fatigue, so it will always require 2 castings against them.

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The first casting would only be useless if you just woke up. If you've been awake all day it would have some effect on high-CON characters, and a large effect on low-CON characters.

That said, I have to imagine most enemies act like they just woke up. And I don't think a spell should be judged by how well it works when stacked.

Given that actual fatigue effects are not easy to control, it be better off simulating it with various secondary effects. Maybe something like a combined Slow + Malison?

Edited by subtledoctor

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In other words, when the AI casts it expecting it to be Chaos, it gets virtually nothing out of it, while the player can use two mages to cast it twice upon a group of enemies at the same time (or three times), and those enemies are basically completely disabled for five rounds.

Actually, it works quite good, provided one uses SCS. Chaos is used often, even in spell triggers, and enemies can have more than one memorized. AI will check for state "confused" before casting this spell (which won't return true), so it all works out; especially in higher levels. The spell maybe won't be utilized as good as a player would (same as any; but it's decent.

Planar Sphere; Yaga Shura, Gromnir etc. battles make AI utilize this spell very efficiently.

It will increase bad luck even with one casting, provided CON isn't godlike (17 and above iirc).

Same logic (use 2 mages to cast) can be said for several dozen spells - from magic missile to adhw. Chaos spell was pretty much just as effective in vanilla; in some cases even better.

 

P.s.

Negative casting speed is hugely detrimental for the ai. The player can somewhat account for it by kiting and positioning, but AI gets wasted by this.

Edited by kreso

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Monster summoning V : My ogres berserker do not use berserk innate ability, but when ennemies cast this spell, ennemies ogres berseker do use berserk innate ability


Vocalize : It simply doesn't working, nothing happens when I try to cast it


protection from elemental enegy (level 4) and greater spell deflection both share the same icon in the spell book. ( but in stores, the protection from elemental eneergy icon looks correct)


Jaheira get both mass cure and mass regenerate, is it intented?


Also Edwin get a monster summoning IV in his spell tool bar even if he doesn't memorize the spell.

Edited by DrAzTiK

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Vocalize: Cannot confirm. I cast Power Word Silence upon myself, then try to cast it again, and I cannot. I cast Vocalize, it clears the silence and lets me immediately cast Power Word Silence upon myself once again, which does not actually silence me since I am protected by Vocalize, and am free to cast it again right after. Seems to work as intended...minus the stupid silenced icon sticking around, which I'll fix.

 

Edwin: That's weird. Have to clear out memorized spells in addition to removing them from the spellbook, I guess. Will look into it.

 

Protection from Elemental Energy: Thanks. The scroll is set correctly, but the spell itself is not.

 

Monster Summoning V: Confirmed. I don't *think* it's my fault, but I'll have to look at their script and figure out what's going on.

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Now on github, per c4_angel's request (and provided little better install instructions in the first post).

Thanks!

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Now vocalize seems to work correctly in my game. Damn I have really some random strange effects.....

 

About Jaheira, can you tell me if it's normal for here to have both mass cure and mass regenerate ?

Edited by DrAzTiK

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Nope, that should not be happening. Looks like Mass Cure is set to general priest instead of specifically cleric - probably from when I had the Regenerate series disabled before I redesigned how they worked. Thanks!

 

(e): Ogre Berserker seems to be an issue of SCS overwriting its script? Are you using SCS in that install, Draztik?

Edited by Bartimaeus

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