SR Revised V1.3.900 (2022 August 8th)

[grodrigues]

I am seeing some spell icons with an ugly green-ish tint in SR. Some of these seem to be fixed in the repo, but not all (Animate Skeleton Warrior, Summon Shambling Mound and a few more). I have no idea what is wrong; at any rate, the SRR icons are just fine, so can I borrow them and install them as a patch to SR?

Edited July 16, 2021 by grodrigues

[Bartimaeus]

2 hours ago, grodrigues said:

I am seeing some spell icons with an ugly green-ish tint in SR. Some of these seem to be fixed in the repo, but not all (Animate Skeleton Warrior, Summon Shambling Mound and a few more). I have no idea what is wrong; at any rate, the SRR icons are just fine, so can I borrow them and install them as a patch to SR?

They were simply not correctly converted from the format in which they were edited (most likely .bmp) to their in-game .bam format, and I guess nor were they tested, so they've been that way for years. I converted them back to .bmp and then again back to .bam but did it correctly. Yes, you may grab and implement the green transparency layer-corrected icons.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Guest FixTesteR]

@subtledoctor, which of your mods removes Magic Resistance from the game? Can I use just that component from your mod? Does SCS know how to handle a game without MR?

@Bartimaeus, a while ago we talked about how to change Goodberries. I noticed that in my current install, they heal 1 hp, and 1 more for every 3 levels of the caster, capping at level 18 where they heal 7 hp per berry. That to me seems a useful change of the spell. i don't think it needs more tweaking. And if someone finds it overpowered, remember that it can only be cast by druids, and with many players, druids seem worse than mages and priests.

[FixTesteR]

Well, the above post is mine of course

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, Guest FixTesteR said:

a while ago we talked about how to change Goodberries. I noticed that in my current install, they heal 1 hp, and 1 more for every 3 levels of the caster, capping at level 18 where they heal 7 hp per berry. That to me seems a useful change of the spell. i don't think it needs more tweaking. And if someone finds it overpowered, remember that it can only be cast by druids, and with many players, druids seem worse than mages and priests.

Coincidentally, I'd been thinking about Goodberry recently and how to re-balance it. @subtledoctor has a point in that Goodberry is too much time/effort to really use, plus it takes up a valuable item/ability use each round to use. My Regenerate Light Wounds regenerates 15 hit points at level 1 over 5 rounds...or an average of 3 HP per round. Coincidentally, Goodberry ALSO takes 5 rounds to use all up of, but Goodberry is...1 HP per round. Something's not adding up here, even with the added versatility of it being able to split it between characters (and one could say that there is greater benefit to having Regenerate Light Wounds simply take up just one round's action, and likely none on the part of the beneficiary). I don't want to get as wacky as Subtledoctor did, but I am thinking of doing something like making Goodberry only create 3 berries (half of maximum party size) but actually healing...5 to start with, and having it scale up to maybe 10 (same as the worst healing potion) at level 15, which mathematically isn't far off from how Regenerate Light Wounds scales. Would be quite the buff over the current terrible implementation.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[subtledoctor]

2 hours ago, FixTesteR said:

which of your mods removes Magic Resistance from the game? Can I use just that component from your mod? Does SCS know how to handle a game without MR?

Scales of Balance. There is still some MR, here and there. But not as much. SCS should be fine, as it’s a purely passive attribute. The actual spell is left in, so players and SCS can still use it. 

[FixTesteR]

On 7/17/2021 at 12:38 PM, Bartimaeus said:

making Goodberry only create 3 berries (half of maximum party size) but actually healing...5 to start with, and having it scale up to maybe 10 (same as the worst healing potion) at level 15

That would be 3x10 = 30 HP healed at level 15. Right now, it's 5x7 = 35 HP healed at level 18. Seems pretty similar. Maybe the buff of Berries staying for more than 8 hours could be implemented, so that a Druid may cast Berries a few times, then the party rests while memorizing other spells, and when they are ready for a fight, they have Berries and other spells. But it's true that a Berry that heals for 10 HP is better than a Berry that heals for 7 HP. I personally wouldn't mind if Berries healed more than that at higher levels, since Druids could use a little buffing. If you have a Druid, then you make minor potions obsolete. So what. Other classes don't have that luxury. And bigger health potions are still better, especially in the heat of the battle where it really matters. Minor one heals 10 HP, extra one heals 30 ... I wouldn't mind a Berry being scaled to something between these two numbers. When you're level 20, 10 HP healing potions are obsolete. If a Berry heals so little, it means by that time the spell is obsolete. A 20 HP might do it still. Perhaps Berries should heal 1 HP per level of the Druid, capped at 20. Or at 25. You think I am going way overboard? My focus with this is: are they viable during a battle. Because outside the battle, when you're level 20, you have other means to heal up: regen items, con 20, Druid Regen spells. So to have Druid Berries be used outside the battle makes them compete with Druid Regen spells. Which is pointless. Only have Regen then.

So after thinking, I'll have to recant the words of my previous post. I still think Berries are underpowered the way they are right now Any (constructive) criticism is welcome. If you've got arguments that shred my idea, bring them up and show me my folly Have a wonderful start of the week!

 

On 7/17/2021 at 1:37 PM, subtledoctor said:

Scales of Balance.

Thank you. I'll write it down and use it when I next do a full install of the game. I have a feeling I'll never want to play without it again. For now, I'm only interested in this one component of your Scales of Balance tweaks. Maybe some other will catch my attention during installation.

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, FixTesteR said:

That would be 3x10 = 30 HP healed at level 15. Right now, it's 5x7 = 35 HP healed at level 18. Seems pretty similar.

1. Way higher initial amount: 15 HP vs. 5 HP at level 1, and I'm more targeting early usage rather than trying to maximize late level usage because it's a level 1 spell and so that's what's important.

2. More convenient to use (the 15 HP would be split over three item uses instead of five - takes up less actions to use).

1 hour ago, FixTesteR said:

Maybe the buff of Berries staying for more than 8 hours could be implemented, so that a Druid may cast Berries a few times, then the party rests while memorizing other spells, and when they are ready for a fight, they have Berries and other spells.

They already last for 24 hours in SRR, actually. Though I'm not particularly a fan of the specific strategy you're mentioning, I will do nothing to prevent it either. Goodberry would probably be a good spell for spontaneous casters if they can last 24 hours. Got extra level 1 slots you need to use before resting? Use 'em up on some Goodberries for some minor heals.

1 hour ago, FixTesteR said:

I personally wouldn't mind if Berries healed more than that at higher levels, since Druids could use a little buffing. If you have a Druid, then you make minor potions obsolete. So what.

Hm, well, it's a level 1 spell, and I'm not really trying to re-invent the wheel here, just make this spell actually kind of usable and in line with other comparative healing spells (e.g. my Cure and Regenerate Light Wounds) without changing its entire concept and implementation. SRR's Cure Light Wounds is 10 HP at 1st level and goes up to 20 at 20th level, SRR's Regenerate Light Wounds is 15 HP at 1st level and goes up to 30 at 20th level, so Goodberry being 15 at 1st level (but split over several uses) and going up to 30 at 15th level is right in line with those, actually slightly better (but acceptable due to the fact that as characters level up, item/ability usages become more valuable compared to early levels, so it really should be a little better than either Cure or Regenerate). ...Alternatively, I guess I could make it 5 + 1/two levels, for a maximum of 15 HP per use at 20th level for a total of 45 HP. Hmm. I think I'd want more feedback from others before implementing that, though.

I want the initial HP healed at level 1 higher, so doing 1 hp/level would result in 20 HP berries at level 20, which yeah, would be useful at 20th level, but 1 HP berries at level 1 which is just terrible and the current problem we have. It's a level 1 spell, it should be generally be the most useful at the lower levels while scaling somewhat to remain at least viable, not the other way around. Maybe 5 + 1/extra level for 20 at 16th level...feels a bit crazy for a level 1 spell to me, and I think I'd prefer maxing it out at 15 at most.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[FixTesteR]

21 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Hmm. I think I'd want more feedback from others before implementing that, though.

Yeah. I hope you get more feedback. My take is a linear 1 HP per level capped at 20, so that it is somewhat viable during combat when higher levels are reached. I find it good that at level 1, it only heals 1 hp, or 5 hp in total. Adding bonuses for L1 makes it overpowered in my opinion, as it doesn't cost any money. Once you're level 2, you get 2 hp already, which is a nice boost early on, and it keeps going to ~20. Your option of having less Berries which heal more might be better still. Or they don't cap at 20 but later. Anyway, keep up the good work, and please take my opinion into consideration, too.

[Bartimaeus]

But at level 1, why would you ever use it? I mean, really - compared to Regenerate Light Wounds or Cure Light Wounds (note: SRR's versions of these spells are better still over standard SR's, Cure Light Wounds heals 10 straight up at level 1 while Regenerate Light Wounds heals 15 HP over 5 rounds; I place great value in healing spells being legitimate options over just habitually abusing the hell out of potions), 5 HP over 5 actions just seems like such an unnecessary hassle that discourages any use of the spell. There's a reason people have complained about these being terrible so many times over the years, and I don't think it's generally because they're trying to use them in ToB. I very much want to make make a level 1 spell be appropriately powerful for the level of character that is most likely to use it...level 20 characters are a consideration, but a necessarily much smaller one.

@Salk Any thoughts on Goodberry?

Edited July 19, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Salk]

I find myself sympathizing with Bartimaeus' position.

A spell scaling properly is a great thing but the main focus must be on how effective they are at their entry level. So I'd rather see the berries be more effective at level one than they are when maxed.

In this case I'd rather go for the first proposal: 3 berries, each initially healing 5 HP.

About how they scale: I think the 30 HP cap at level 15 sounds good enough. I know that one of the goals of this modification is to make spells attractive at each possible level but I am actually fine with spells with some sort of limitation on their effectiveness.

[Bartimaeus]

15 hours ago, Salk said:

I find myself sympathizing with Bartimaeus' position.

A spell scaling properly is a great thing but the main focus must be on how effective they are at their entry level. So I'd rather see the berries be more effective at level one than they are when maxed.

In this case I'd rather go for the first proposal: 3 berries, each initially healing 5 HP.

About how they scale: I think the 30 HP cap at level 15 sounds good enough. I know that one of the goals of this modification is to make spells attractive at each possible level but I am actually fine with spells with some sort of limitation on their effectiveness.

Thanks, that is what I've implemented for the time being. At the very least, the spell is significantly improved at literally every level compared to before, and that goes double for those low levels.

[Satrhan]

How compatible is this mod with SCS? I tried installing IRR, SRR, and SCS using the order you describe in first post, but i'm getting a lot of warnings and error messages.

The following SCS components were installed with warnings:
Initialise AI components
Smarter mages
Improved doppelgangers
Improved Balduran's Isle
Improved Cloakwood Druids
Improved Drasus party
Improved Red Wizards
Improved Undercity Assassins
Improved minor encounters

The Improved Durlags Tower component refused to install altogether.

Looking through the debug files, I wasn't able to identify the causes for all warnings and errors, but I could trace quite a few back .CRE files that were touched by SRR. I've included the debug for stratagems and SRR.

There used to be talk about needing a different version of SCS if you wanted to use SR, but I can't find that. Is that still the case?

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Satrhan

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, Satrhan said:

How compatible is this mod with SCS? I tried installing IRR, SRR, and SCS using the order you describe in first post, but i'm getting a lot of warnings and error messages.

The following SCS components were installed with warnings:
Initialise AI components
Smarter mages
Improved doppelgangers
Improved Balduran's Isle
Improved Cloakwood Druids
Improved Drasus party
Improved Red Wizards
Improved Undercity Assassins
Improved minor encounters

The Improved Durlags Tower component refused to install altogether.

Looking through the debug files, I wasn't able to identify the causes for all warnings and errors, but I could trace quite a few back .CRE files that were touched by SRR. I've included the debug for stratagems and SRR.

There used to be talk about needing a different version of SCS if you wanted to use SR, but I can't find that. Is that still the case?

DEBUG Stratagems and SRR.zip 621.8 kB · 0 downloads

It's intended for use with SCS. I'm taking a look through some of your errors now, and it seems as though literally every single error except for one is to do with "dw#mage.baf" inexplicably not being found while attempting to patch mage-type creatures. According to your debug file, you've installed your game in the default Steam location under C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common. You can try running the setup-scs.exe as administrator to see if that makes any difference, or move the game to a different location not subject to Windows' permissions shenanigans, such as under C:\Users\(Your Username)\Downloads and try reinstalling SCS to see if you get the same errors. Alternatively, if you have a different drive you can temporarily move the game to, you could do that as well. There's no reason such a fundamental SCS file like dw#mage.baf should be missing.

Also, no, the latest versions of SCS are much more compatible with SR than they used to and so there is no special version needed.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Satrhan]

Thanks for looking into this. I haven't had any trouble with installing SCS before, and SRR is the only major change compared to my previous mod setup. Although this is the first time I've installed on a Windows 10 pc, maybe that has something to do with it. I'll try your suggestions and see if that makes a difference.