SR Revised V1.3.900 (2022 August 8th)

[subtledoctor]

3 hours ago, pochesun said:

I actually might like shorter duration but significantly more noticable boost to Thac0 even more. Worth considering to make it that way maybe.

That's a good point, it could perhaps give a much larger thac0 boost to basically guarantee a hit, without making it a crit. (Maybe even reducing crit chance to balance things.) Like, instead becoming like a 1st-level fighter with high STR, an ~8-point thac0 bonus would make the mage like a 5th-level fighter with high STR.

[pochesun]

On 3/16/2023 at 7:32 PM, subtledoctor said:

That's a good point, it could perhaps give a much larger thac0 boost to basically guarantee a hit, without making it a crit. (Maybe even reducing crit chance to balance things.) Like, instead becoming like a 1st-level fighter with high STR, an ~8-point thac0 bonus would make the mage like a 5th-level fighter with high STR.

right and i also like it short duration because it conditions a mage to subject himself to a risk while standing right behind the enemy and  casting True Strike and then performing a hit. Of course Stoneskin spell can mitigate that risk but still. And at early levels there is no stoneskin available for mage anyway.

[Chosen]

Hi, when looking at my thiefs stats I saw a disperancy as move silently was 2 higher than its suppose to. This is not a big deal in itself but may indicate something a a wrong opcode or something so I looked at for the cause and found resist fear effect by whispering sword. I checked and and spell have the same issue. So I opened them in the NI and had look. Only thing that catched my eye was modify script state(282) with state(22). I don't know thich state it suppose to set but I think there is something wrong with it. Maybe It is a EE vs classic issue and values are changed? https://gibberlings3.github.io/iesdp/opcodes/bgee.htm#op282 this link suggests something is different but I am not familiar enough with this to figure out what. Of course maybe it is something comletely different like install issue or something so I added weidu log of the install just in case.

WeiDU.log

[Bartimaeus]

4 hours ago, Chosen said:

Hi, when looking at my thiefs stats I saw a disperancy as move silently was 2 higher than its suppose to. This is not a big deal in itself but may indicate something a a wrong opcode or something so I looked at for the cause and found resist fear effect by whispering sword. I checked and and spell have the same issue. So I opened them in the NI and had look. Only thing that catched my eye was modify script state(282) with state(22). I don't know thich state it suppose to set but I think there is something wrong with it. Maybe It is a EE vs classic issue and values are changed? https://gibberlings3.github.io/iesdp/opcodes/bgee.htm#op282 this link suggests something is different but I am not familiar enough with this to figure out what. Of course maybe it is something comletely different like install issue or something so I added weidu log of the install just in case.

WeiDU.log 48.95 kB · 1 download

Yeah, when The Whistling Swords' resist fear aura is active, my thief gets +2 to Find Traps. It seems to disappear when the aura goes as well, so it's not a huge bug, but thanks for bringing it to my attention - very strange. I'm not even sure if that particular scripting state does anything for oBG2 players, I think I copied the effects from SRR's Resist Fear spell, which I wouldn't be surprised if has the same issue. Not really my area of expertise, to be honest.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[Chosen]

If you decide to remove the effect I think protection from the missiles have the same issue(just for a different thief skill). It seems to be very mild bug though.

[WanderingScholar]

@Bartimaeus I've found a bug in my current game I'm hoping you can shed some light on.

After 4 separate installs and hours of testing it would seem that SCSv31 RC3 + kreso's Spell Revisions compatibility runs SRR the smoothest out of any version of SCS I've tested thus far, at least with the original BGT. SCSv32 seems to be the cutoff point where I start observing anomalous behavior with the AI, which I suspect might be due to how sequencers, contingencies, triggers, and targeting were reworked. But it could also be some outstanding compatibility issues. In any event, I've had some major breakthroughs this week after I found @DavidW's free WeiDU course. If anyone on this site learned how to mod with WeiDU strictly through reverse engineering while having no coding background, hats off to them. 

 Now with my current list I set "chaos=1" in spell_rev\settings.ini so that chaos is not replaced with waves of fatigue. The problem is that none of the casters in my game received chaos in their spell selection despite the .2da's in stratagems\mage\spellchoices\demivrgvs having CHAOS(5th) in their lists. Curiously, all casters have sphere of chaos(7th) memorized in place of chaos, even if they shouldn't be able to cast 7th level spells. 

spell_rev\components\main_component.tpa has

Spoiler

ACTION_IF chaos=1 BEGIN
COPY ~spell_rev\shared\alternatives\spwi508.spl~     ~override~  // Chaos
  SAY NAME1 @625000    SAY UNIDENTIFIED_DESC @626000
  LPF ALTER_EFFECT INT_VAR match_opcode = 139 match_parameter1 = 14782 parameter1 = RESOLVE_STR_REF(@23012) END
COPY ~spell_rev\shared\alternatives\scrl5p.itm~      ~override~
  SAY NAME2 @625000    SAY IDENTIFIED_DESC   @626000
END ELSE BEGIN
COPY ~spell_rev\spwi5##\spwi508.spl~     ~override~  // Waves of Fatigue (replaces Chaos)
  SAY NAME1 @625    SAY UNIDENTIFIED_DESC @626
COPY ~spell_rev\spwi5##\scrl5p.itm~      ~override~
  SAY NAME2 @625    SAY IDENTIFIED_DESC   @626
END
COPY_EXISTING ~spell.ids~ ~override~
  REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~^2508[ %TAB%]+WIZARD_CHAOS~ ~2508 WIZARD_WAVES_OF_FATIGUE~

I think this might be the culprit. It happens regardless of chaos=1. Why does this spell use REPLACE_TEXTUALLY as opposed to APPEND in spell.ids? 

Now when I crack open spellchoices\demivrgvs in SCSv34 it has WAVES_OF_FATIGUE in it's .2da's so I'm thinking I should either copy that change to my end for the next install or move these lines between BEGIN and END.  

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, WanderingScholar said:

I think this might be the culprit. It happens regardless of chaos=1. Why does this spell use REPLACE_TEXTUALLY as opposed to APPEND in spell.ids? 

Looking over similar spell.ids-related REPLACE_TEXTUALLYs, I would think you're right. The only time REPLACE_TEXTUALLY seems to be used except for this one case is to make it so that a spell cannot be found (i.e. where the spell has been hidden/deprecated), presumably so that it's not erroneously chosen as a part of SCS's spellbook choices (or any other mod similarly trying to use spells based off of their IDS identifiers). In this particular case, I know that SCS has different spellbook assignments if it detects SR being installed and presumed that it would expect "WIZARD_WAVES_OF_FATIGUE" and not "WIZARD_CHAOS", so I figured it would be best to keep it as WIZARD_WAVES_OF_FATIGUE.

So that raises three questions:
1. Does SCS ever put SR's Waves of Fatigue into spellbooks? I thought it did, or at least at one point that it did, but I can't rightly say for certain right now.
2. If so, why isn't the original Chaos being put into spellbooks right now when it uses the same/expected identifier?
3. If not, then is there a way we can change SCS's mind so that it does get into spellbooks from the point of SRR? Would not doing the REPLACE_TEXTUALLY to WIZARD_WAVES_OF_FATIGUE (or changing it into an APPEND) actually accomplish anything, or would SCS still not care and skip it over thinking Chaos should not ever exist in an SR game?

If it's both true that SCS doesn't like to assign Waves of Fatigue and that it also doesn't believe Chaos should ever exist in an SR game, there's probably nothing SRR can do to change its mind. But if it does like to assign Waves of Fatigue, then it's something SRR has somehow broken and it should be fixed.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[subtledoctor]

8 hours ago, WanderingScholar said:

it would seem that SCSv31 RC3 + kreso's Spell Revisions compatibility runs SRR the smoothest out of any version of SCS I've tested thus far

…

Now with my current list I set "chaos=1" in spell_rev\settings.ini so that chaos is not replaced with waves of fatigue. The problem is that none of the casters in my game received chaos in their spell selection despite the .2da's in stratagems\mage\spellchoices\demivrgvs having CHAOS(5th) in their lists. Curiously, all casters have sphere of chaos(7th) memorized in place of chaos, even if they shouldn't be able to cast 7th level spells. 

…

Now when I crack open spellchoices\demivrgvs in SCSv34 it has WAVES_OF_FATIGUE in it's .2da's

I think your issue stems from mixing and matching mods from different eras. SR’s handling of entries in SPELL.IDS is currently quite intentional, a result of the work that people put in to …v4b17.

It used to be that Waves of Fatigue would inherit the Chaos IDS entry, by simply overwriting the file. SCS v31 accounted for this by adding WIZARD_CHAOS to mages who should have Waves of Fatigue memorized. 

Now SR (in part at the urging of DavidW) is more precise with spell IDS names, and changes the entry for Waves of Fatigue to WIZARD_WAVES_OF_FATIGUE. SCS in turn uses that IDS name to populate mages 5th-level spells. So if you want to use a version of SCS from before this change, you’ll have to account for the different changes SR now uses. (Or, optionally, use an older version of SR. Which might actually be fine for a non-EE game.)

Neither here nor there but I am using SCS v33.4 (note, not a typo - I don’t mean v34.3, I am playing BG2EE v2.5 so need the older v33 SCS) and I have not noticed any of the weird mage behavior that people mentioned in relation to v32. v33 might be worth a try if you have not done so already. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by subtledoctor

[subtledoctor]

7 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

three questions:
1. Does SCS ever put SR's Waves of Fatigue into spellbooks? I thought it did, or at least at one point that it did, but I can't rightly say for certain right now.
2. If so, why isn't the original Chaos being put into spellbooks right now when it uses the same/expected identifier?
3. If not, then is there a way we can change SCS's mind so that it does get into spellbooks from the point of SRR? Would not doing the REPLACE_TEXTUALLY to WIZARD_WAVES_OF_FATIGUE (or changing it into an APPEND) actually accomplish anything, or would SCS still not care and skip it over thinking Chaos should not ever exist in an SR game?

See my post above. I don’t think you need to do anything different than what you are doing now. If I’m right, then even in its reverted form, the 5th-level spell should stick with WIZARD_WAVES_OF_FATIGUE. Because 1) that’s what current versions of SCS expect to be there, and 2) because WIZARD_CHAOS is already being used by the 7th-level Sphere of Chaos spell (and SCS expects that). With SCS v33 I have definitely been having enemy mages cast Waves of Fatigue at me.

I suspect that for anyone using SCS v33 or v34, everything here is working as it should. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by subtledoctor

[WanderingScholar]

7 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

So that raises three questions:
1. Does SCS ever put SR's Waves of Fatigue into spellbooks? I thought it did, or at least at one point that it did, but I can't rightly say for certain right now.
2. If so, why isn't the original Chaos being put into spellbooks right now when it uses the same/expected identifier?
3. If not, then is there a way we can change SCS's mind so that it does get into spellbooks from the point of SRR? Would not doing the REPLACE_TEXTUALLY to WIZARD_WAVES_OF_FATIGUE (or changing it into an APPEND) actually accomplish anything, or would SCS still not care and skip it over thinking Chaos should not ever exist in an SR game?

Ok it looks like SR uses REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~^2508[ %TAB%]+WIZARD_CHAOS to change the original entry to WAVES_OF_FATIGUE because it later appends CLERIC_CHAOS and WIZARD_CHAOS into spell.ids for the 7th level sphere of chaos and there needs to be differentiation? 

cleric sphere of chaos

Spoiler

ADD_PROJECTILE ~spell_rev\projectles\dvschaos.pro~
COPY ~spell_rev\sppr7##\sppr709.spl~     ~override~  // Sphere of Chaos (replaces Confusion)
  SAY NAME1 @297    SAY UNIDENTIFIED_DESC @298
  WRITE_SHORT 0x98 %dvschaos%
APPEND ~spell.ids~ ~1709 CLERIC_CHAOS~

wizard sphere of chaos

Spoiler

COPY ~spell_rev\spwi7##\spwi711.spl~     ~override~  // Sphere of Chaos
  SAY NAME1 @737    SAY UNIDENTIFIED_DESC @738
  WRITE_SHORT 0x98 %dvschaos%
COPY ~spell_rev\spwi7##\scrl8m.itm~      ~override~
  SAY NAME2 @737    SAY IDENTIFIED_DESC   @738
APPEND ~spell.ids~ ~2711 WIZARD_CHAOS~

I think I can remedy this by removing the cleric APPEND line to

Spoiler

COPY_EXISTING ~spell.ids~ ~override~
  REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~^1709[ %TAB%]+CLERIC_CONFUSION~ ~1709 CLERIC_SPHERE_OF_CHAOS~

and then remove the append line from the wizard since 2711 WIZARD_SPHERE_OF_CHAOS already exists in spell.ids. 

My confusion comes from my ignorance of how WeiDU code identifies spells in game and the inner workings of SCS. "CHAOS" and "SPHERE_OF_CHAOS" is referenced in many of the SCSv31 .tpa/tph files concerning mages. If I don't do the above edits, but simply replace CHAOS with WAVES_OF FATIGUE in the spellchoices\demivrgvs .2da's won't that still lead to problems? I suppose in that regard I'd also have to update all CLERIC_CHAOS and WIZARD_CHAOS references in SR's setup files if I did do these edits. Something could break.

@subtledoctorI see your comments while I'm writing this. Sorry to drag you guys into this. Yes, if memory serves I do believe this specific problem is corrected with the latest version of SCS. Only the latest version has other problems which likely won't be resolved until David returns from his hiatus. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by WanderingScholar

[WanderingScholar]

@Bartimaeus See @subtledoctor's comments. Everything should be fine from your end. Like he said, this issue is because I'm mixing mods from different eras. 

[subtledoctor]

5 hours ago, WanderingScholar said:

think I can remedy this by

Just be aware, you may find similar issues with other spells if you use new versions of SR with SCS v31. I couldn’t even tell you off the top of my head. The Monster Summoning spells in particular may be an issue. 

[Bartimaeus]

@subtledoctor Thanks, I didn't even consider the issue of the specific version of SCS. Kind of forgot that it's only been within the past few versions that that change happened. I wonder if it's the case that @WanderingScholar was insistent upon mixing these versions together, whether it might be a good idea to simply disable all spell.ids-related changes in spell_rev\components\main_component.tpa for more optimal results.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[NdranC]

I'm a little conflicted on two components of SR/SRR and I would like some thoughs if anybody has any. The first component in question is "Spell Deflecttion blocks AoE spells".

On one hand, you think it would make sense, but on the other, it changes the balance of spells making clouds and webs stronger (since they are still not blocked), makes AoE spells even weaker, since they are already stopped by Elemental/Magic resistances, and closes a potential avenue for mages to deal with other mages when they don't have the correct elemental protection up. To some degree, when mages are always so well protected by mage chess, it almost feels like it's just easier to tank them while overwhelming their defenses with a lot of apr fighters instead of playing the multi round process of disarming them.

The other component I have some doubts about is the one that allows me to change how Dispel/Remove Magic works.

Last time I had a lot of issues in SoA/ToB with mages using triple dispel sequencers on my entire party. If I remember correctly, the only way to stop dispel is with dispelling screen, but that only works on the first one. Is there anything I can do to help against the triple dispel sequencers? I've been debating changing how dispel works but I also wanted to check if it was just a me issue and other people handle it better.

[Bartimaeus]

@NdranC

My own bias speaking here, I personally don't really love the majority of stationary spells (e.g. Cloudkill) compared to instant effect spells, so for me, it's really a no brainer to use Spell Deflection Blocks AoE Spells. Might as well give those stationary spells that unique advantage to make them more attractive options for myself - certainly can't hurt them.

Dispel Magic: Well, you can make it so Globes of Invulnerability completely protect against it via the dispel_globes option, you can make Spell Protections protect against them as if they were any other hostile spell via the spell_protections option, and there are also the two alternative Dispel Magic options via the alternative_dispel/remove_magic options. For myself, I leave dispel_globes at 1 (globes can't be dispelled but don't protect against dispelling either), spell_protections at 0 (dispels go through spell protections), but change alternative_remove_magic to 1 (scaling saving throw Remove Magic). I feel like that gives the optimal amount of power to Remove Magic as used by SCS while making it a bit less insane - there's no blanket immunity to it, but even if a lich casts it at you, a -4 saving throw is by no means insurmountable for the player. Combined with a Dispelling Screen, and some of your characters might be able to make it through even a 3x Remove Magic sequencer. Plus, it makes it so that the player can also use it against higher level enemies and have it succeed some percentage of the time, as opposed to typically no percentage of the time as it generally is with the ridiculous level/percentage-based system. What a cloddy idea that whole thing was.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Bartimaeus