DavidW queries about SR v4b15

[DavidW]

I'm going to use this thread to post silly questions about SR that are coming up in SCS v32.

 

 

Here's the first: why are there no scrolls of Summon Fiend and (wizard L9) Gate? Both spells have SR versions, neither is in HIDESPL, but both have their scrolls overwritten with Monster Summoning spells. Is this intentional?

[subtledoctor]

Depends on which version you're talking about. I believe in SR 4b14 and 4b15 WIZARD_GATE is overwritten by MS9 (Summon Basilisks). I reverted that in my changes for 4b16 (so there is no MS9, and Gate stays Gate) but I'm not sure when, or indeed whether, Mike and Mad Mate will accept that change.

 

I don't remember what happens with Summon Fiend. Is it overwritten by MS8? Should be easy enough to tell from a glance at main_component.tpa in 4b15. I do know that Demi specifically eliminated (overwrote) Cacofiend and Summon Fiend - because it was over my strenuous objection.

Edited September 27, 2018 by subtledoctor

[Wyrd]

I remember reading on this forum, but I may be mistaken, that scrolls of Summon Fiend and Gate were temporarly removed to help playtesting the new summon monster IX.

[DavidW]

I am starting to reconsider whether this is stable enough to be coding AI around...

 

I will assume that Summon Fiend and (wizard) Gate are supposed to be available and that the missing scrolls are an error.

[subtledoctor]

Even if fiend-summoning spells are not available to the player, I don't see a problem with enemies using them. Chalk it up to the fact that the player is (in one sense) a neophyte even at 30th level, whereas various enemy mages have been studying spells and rityals for years. I think it's reasonable for them to have tricks the player has not discovered.

Edited September 27, 2018 by subtledoctor

[DavidW]

Even if fiend-summoning spells are not available to the player, I don't see a problem with enemies using them. Chalk it up to the fact that the player is (in one sense) a neophyte even at 30th level, whereas various enemy mages have been studying spells and rityals for years. I think it's reasonable for them to have tricks the player has not discovered.

That violates a basic design principle of SCS (albeit one I already bent with fiend summoning, but there's a difference between bending and breaking).

[Bartimaeus]

The current version of SR rather fubars the scroll allocation of some spells. I believe I mentioned this in my big "list of bugs/problems" for the current SR. The basic problem is that SR has too many spells and not enough vanilla scrolls, and it does not introduce new scrolls to make up for the difference. SRR restores a number of spells that were soft-disabled by making slightly better use of vanilla's scrolls, as well as introducing some new ones. I would not disable the use of spells based on whether or not they have a scroll (such as in Gate's or Summon Nishruu's cases), since SR actually still modifies/revises those spells...it's just that there is the temporary problem of them not properly having scrolls.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[DavidW]

Thanks. Yes, that was my working hypothesis: SR never built machinery to allocate scrolls, partly because in the first instance it was just modifying (or on occasion replacing) existing scrolls, so that it could just piggyback off the existing allocation; by this stage, that strategy is under strain.

[DavidW]

OK, next question: why are there two Summon Nishruus?

 

The L7 Summon Hakeashar spell is replaced by Summon Nishruu, with an in-game description saying it's 7th level. The L6 Summon Nishruu spell is still there, but has the new (L7) version copied over it. The L7 version has a scroll, but the L6 version's scroll has been overwritten with a monster-summoning scroll. Neither version is in hidespl.

 

Here I'm guessing the L6 spell is supposed to be removed, the copy is there for the AI, and it's a bug that the L6 version isn't in hidespl. If someone could confirm, that would be great.

[Mad Mate]

I'm going to use this thread to post silly questions about SR that are coming up in SCS v32.

 

Here's the first: why are there no scrolls of Summon Fiend and (wizard L9) Gate? Both spells have SR versions, neither is in HIDESPL, but both have their scrolls overwritten with Monster Summoning spells. Is this intentional?

Summon Fiend scroll should be there SCRL9B.ITM, and WIZARD_GATE is still there (SPWI905.SPL), but it's scroll is, like Subtledoctor said, temporary overwritten by MS9.

What version of SR4b15 are you using? Kreso's is here, and I transferred it to github comit by comit here, so you can download proofed and checked version of SR4b15 here. File by file same like Kreso's but made compatible with all BG versions (removed EE opcodes).

 

There is WiP branch of fixing and cleaning b15 here, so you can follow our progress. Almost all bugs are found by Bartimaeus and other forum members, and fixes are mostly by Subtledoctor & others which I checked before putting them in git.

 

As you can see by comits, there will be mostly bugfixing and cleaning stuff without making big changes. I'll probably, put back Gate scroll like Subtledoctor suggested, because nobody likes new MS9 spell anyway. Until someone come with better solution.

[DavidW]

What version of SR4b15 are you using?

The one from the pinned "SR4b15" thread (which I take it is Kreso's). I'm already a bit uncomfortable working with something that isn't an "official" public release; I'm not going to work with anything more work-in-progress and non-public than that.

 

If the current state of SR is such that it's having lots of fixing and cleaning going on and some spells may change, it sounds like possibly I should postpone updating SCS compatibility until we get a stable official release?

[Mad Mate]

The one from the pinned "SR4b15" thread (which I take it is Kreso's). I'm already a bit uncomfortable working with something that isn't an "official" public release; I'm not going to work with anything more work-in-progress and non-public than that.

 

If the current state of SR is such that it's having lots of fixing and cleaning going on and some spells may change, it sounds like possibly I should postpone updating SCS compatibility until we get a stable official release?

Yeah, that is the one to use. Last year or so people were using it, and there wern't much complains. Some small buffing or nerfing are requested, but nothing major. Just, Demi vanished when it came to last level spells and left a bit unfinished.

I'm not certain, but I think 6th level Summon Nishruu should be in hidespl as it's scroll is taken by MS8 and there is new 7th level Summon Nishruu spell.