SCS v32 Release Candidate (now Version 10) Available for Testing

[Lord_Tansheron]

First of all, let me thank you for the best BG mod in existence, and the only reason I'm still playing this game.

I'm still in the middle of exploring the new SCS, but a few things I noticed that seem odd and (possibly) unintended behavior.

- there seems to be no options for difficulty settings on trolls, and the old Tactics-style spell-casting spirit trolls appear to be gone. This makes both the Druid Grove and de'Arnise Keep considerably less difficult than before

- there appears to be something wrong with at least some level-based spawns, as a number of them seem to have been absent completely. I put the setting on "always max level spawns" in the difficulty adjustment skill, and the following spawns were not there: Yuan-Ti mages in Mekrath's lair; beholder ambush in the sewers; pack of Yuan-Ti in the derelict temple area just east of the entrance; pack of beholders/shadows just past the bridge trial in the derelict temple area; lich in the undead town. Possibly more that I'm just forgetting. If trigger zones were present (such as with the beholder ambush or the lich) I did make sure to cross them, and I reloaded multiple times to try and get them to show.

- despite setting everything to maximum in the installer and the difficulty adjustment skill and playing on Insane + LoB, mages seem to have much weaker scripts than they did in previous SCS versions. In particular, nobody seems to be using Dispel Magic anymore, and the few instances of Time Stop I've encountered have resulted in very unimpressive actions (summons, Symbol of Stunning for Tolgerias, for example). I double-checked that every setting was put to maximum, including full HLAs etc.

- the overall feeling is one of a generally reduced difficulty compared to previous SCS versions. Maybe I am merely doing something wrong with configuring it? Should I even go to manual when setting the difficulty slider to Insane + LoB? Does that automatically put everything on maximum, or are there some settings (like HLAs) that will remain one less than maximum for their default?

I've put all SCS settings to maximum difficulty in every category there is. I am using Ascension, Spell Revisions (revised), Item Revisions (revised), SCS, as well as CD Tweaks (in that order). WeiDU.log is attached.

WeiDU.log

[DavidW]

@All: a quick note that I'm still following this, but I'm out of the country visiting family, which isn't the best environment to post updates. So probably none till the New Year.

@Lord_Tansheron in particular: 

- if no-one's using Dispel Magic, that's a bug. Likewise if nothing much is happening in Timestop. (Though that doesn't sound crazy strategy for Tolgerias.) And that definitely looks like a problem with spawns; I'll try to reproduce it.

- if you're on Insane + Legacy of Bhaal, that should be the hardest setting - though I have done virtually no testing with LoB in place, so it wouldn't surprise me if it does something weird.) So you're not doing anything wrong in configuring it, which means if it's easier than you're used to, something's wrong. I'd appreciate detailed feedback as to exactly what you think the problems are, as the spellscripts were revamped quite a bit and that might have had unexpected effects.

(One thing I should flag: v32 prioritises varied and thematically-appropriate spells slightly more than previous versions, even at the cost of effectiveness. So fiend-summoning is mostly restricted to liches, ADHW is used less (though still used) by non-necromancers, etc.)

- I deprecated the spellcasting spirit trolls on scope-management grounds and because I'm ambivalent about the component. If there's sufficient enthusiasm I can reinstate them, but not for v32.

[Lord_Tansheron]

Enjoy your holidays first and foremost! If anything the BG community has learned to be patient

Much appreciate the answers, and I will definitely do some more in-depth testing. I've only just begun exploring the new SCS (and new SR/IR) and I plan to make good use of the holidays to finally get some game time in again. I'll try and keep track of everything I encounter, and of anything that seems odd to me.

[zenblack]

+1 Enthusiasm for Spirit Troll reinstatement. They were a core part of the difficulty of De'Arnise keep and them not being there definitely is a net negative. I am pretty sure you even fixed their invisibility by changing it to just permanent improved invisibility. If you feel that their spells are not thematic or don't fit with the attack on the keep I'm pretty sure you could add some Priest/Druid levels and turn them into a more dynamic combatant.

 

Also just looking in the AD&D rules regarding spirit trolls, you could implement their lifesteal attack, this would also increase the difficulty and be thematic.

http://www.lomion.de/cmm/troll.php

Edited December 26, 2018 by zenblack

[Guest Occasional Guest]

I believe I have also experienced the same random enemy spawning bug as Lord_Tansheron, or something related.

I installed SCS alongside some tweak and tactical encounter mods, although nothing else directly affecting random spawns. Started a new game with difficulty set to Insane. Shortly after starting the game (ie in the first room of Irenicus' Dungeon), I used the innate ability to set random spawn difficulty to Throne of Bhaal.

Game seemed fine through earliest quests (Irenicus' Dungeon, Circus Tent, Copper Coronet + slavers). 

Under the Graveyard for Korgan's quest, it felt like some of the spawns weren't the highest level, but I thought it might be my memory playing up.

Doing the De'Arnise Keep during Nalia's quest, some of the troll spawns definitely weren't the highest level, and different spawns were occasionally being given when saving and reloading the game.

During the Planar Sphere quest, I think two golem spawn triggers have failed entirely (one in the engine room where you feed in the demon heart - I'm pretty sure you fight golems after feeding the heart in, the other in the clockwork room at the top of the main sphere map). As far as I could tell could tell, other spawns were fine.

[Lord_Tansheron]

On 12/28/2018 at 5:07 PM, Guest Occasional Guest said:

During the Planar Sphere quest, I think two golem spawn triggers have failed entirely (one in the engine room where you feed in the demon heart - I'm pretty sure you fight golems after feeding the heart in, the other in the clockwork room at the top of the main sphere map). As far as I could tell could tell, other spawns were fine.

Can confirm. No golems at all in the engine room or the clockwork room.

EDIT:

No Lich in Spellhold either.

And so far I can't recall one single time a mage has used Dispel Magic against me. Though their various defensive contingencies do make mage fights reasonably challenging, I feel that many fights just involve a lot of summons and fairly little else. Is that right for the maximum setting? Can't say.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Lord_Tansheron

[Relay]

Hi just Finished SOA a remembered an old bug I had found with the "Move watchers keep between SOA and TOB" component.  Ground Piles from the final fight are being transferred to AR3000 properly but in a really awkward spot. They are in the cliffs, inaccessible. 

CopyGroundPilesTo("ar3000",[1116.1805]) should be something like-------

CopyGroundPilesTo("ar3000",[1550.2550])

Edited December 30, 2018 by Relay

[agris]

On 12/19/2018 at 2:23 AM, Luke said:

[bGEE, Release candidate 7]

 

1) Protection from Normal Missiles doesn't protect against elemental arrows if no_initial_change_pro_normal_missiles is set to 0

 

2) no_initial_change_elemental_arrows should probably be listed under "nerfed and moved items" in stratagems.ini

 

3) no_initial_change_modify_breach doesn't modify Wand of Spell Striking when set to 0 (i.e., primary type and secondary type of Breach are set to NONE....)

Looks like my earlier post got lost in the forum upgrade.

 

I can confirm this behavior in SCS 32 v7, with no_initial_change_pro_normal_missiles set to 0 as well.

It would be nice if the description for ammunition clearly reflected what is magic, and what isn't. Some darts, for example, are flagged as magic of 0 enchantment, but their description reads as if the darts were dipped in toxin, i.e. darts of stunning. Same with arrows, such as acid arrows vs flame arrows.

[Luke]

@agris

I think it's (much) better to update the description of the spell..........

Separately, what can you tell me of my third point (i.e., Breach)? Can you confirm it?

[Lilaina]

Baresh (the werewolf henchman at Ulgoth's beard) spawns two werewolfs when turning. Is this intended?

[Relay]

elemental_area_immunity.tpa is deprecated with Spell Revisions  since v4. B15 on Enhanced Editions. The elemental damage array does not account for enemies with negative resistances. See Kjernon's quote here

Bascially adding opcode 324 to an effect using your array causes creatures with negative elemental immunity to also be immune to said effect.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Relay

[krevett]

On 12/25/2018 at 6:50 PM, Lord_Tansheron said:

- there appears to be something wrong with at least some level-based spawns, as a number of them seem to have been absent completely. I put the setting on "always max level spawns" in the difficulty adjustment skill, and the following spawns were not there: Yuan-Ti mages in Mekrath's lair; beholder ambush in the sewers; pack of Yuan-Ti in the derelict temple area just east of the entrance; pack of beholders/shadows just past the bridge trial in the derelict temple area; lich in the undead town. Possibly more that I'm just forgetting. If trigger zones were present (such as with the beholder ambush or the lich) I did make sure to cross them, and I reloaded multiple times to try and get them to show.

I'm playing with "Tie difficulty of level-dependent monster groupings to the difficulty slider: v32 RC7" on hardcore and while testing Yuan-ti in mekrath lair as well as beholders and shadows past the bridge spawned correctly. However In the same area, the yuan-ti before the bridge trial were replaced by ghasts and I can confirm that there was no lich in the undead town.

Edit: Indeed there seems to be a problem with the "Legacy of bhaal" setting, doing the same run no spawns...

Edited January 2, 2019 by krevett

[DavidW]

Still haven’t had a proper chance to look at this, but I wouldn’t be amazed if there’s a logic hole in the “legacy of Bhaal” settings, since it’s the least tested.

Monster spawns is one of the few components that actually has difficulty settings beyond 5. You won’t get lich spawns at low level unless you’re on LoB or manually set the difficulty to super-insane. (Basically because I don’t want people getting SCS liches at low level unless they know what they’re getting themselves into.)

[Lord_Tansheron]

14 hours ago, DavidW said:

Still haven’t had a proper chance to look at this, but I wouldn’t be amazed if there’s a logic hole in the “legacy of Bhaal” settings, since it’s the least tested.

Monster spawns is one of the few components that actually has difficulty settings beyond 5. You won’t get lich spawns at low level unless you’re on LoB or manually set the difficulty to super-insane. (Basically because I don’t want people getting SCS liches at low level unless they know what they’re getting themselves into.)

But LoB puts everything on maximum natively? Or are there settings that aren't on max even if the difficulty is set to LoB? Random liches and HLAs on every caster seem like candidates.

[krevett]

While browsing some file with NI, I've seen that mages with hla (like kangaax and odamaron) have their memorized spells as wizard rather than innate with "Treat mages' and priests' High-Level Abilities as innate abilities rather than memorisable spells (each may be taken only once): v32 RC7" thus not using them.

I've browsed the same files with my v31 install and these spells are correctly memorized as innate for these creatures. Did you change something in the HLA code?

 

Edit: What's funny is that I managed to install "Improved Irenicus in Hell (Tactics remix) -> Tactics-SCSII hybrid: v21" on top (by adding *.mrk files from another install to allow it). A little editing was needed to make the wraith and the sword act correctly and the cutscene to play as intended but everything is working and irenicus has HLA as innate with v21's code and is using them ^^

Edited January 4, 2019 by krevett