DavidW Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 The issue is enemy-summoned summons. Their script blocks shouldn't be blocked by ActionListEmpty blocks. (It’s not a problem, one can just route around it with OR() ) Link to comment
Angel Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 22 hours ago, DavidW said: But that can't really be separated from your bug report. If you look at the difficulty setting, the intended BASIC difficulty is "Vampires fight fairly unintelligently and do not use their supernatural abilities, other than occasional shapeshifting", where "occasional shapeshifting" means that they occasionally turn into a wolf to attack. That's if anything slightly easier than the vanilla game, where vampires get Domination. I can entirely believe there's a bug in that, but that's not relevant to how things should work in a bug-free environment. Point taken. Well, then in that case, when I encountered them in Fikraag's lair, vampires were definitely not easier than the vanilla game on BASIC and were not fighting unintelligently. They were summoning hordes of creatures, shape-shifting into rats, bats and what not, sneaking past my front liners (even pushing them out of doorways which is highly illogical for a bat or rat, vampire or not), or hiding from sight and backstabbing my weaker party members (and with the four levels an ancient drains per hit, that means those party members die in 2-3 hits). Their shape-shifted forms were also damn near impossible to hit for my 12th level paladin, even with a +3 weapon and several buffs on him. Link to comment
DavidW Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Angel said: Point taken. Well, then in that case, when I encountered them in Fikraag's lair, vampires were definitely not easier than the vanilla game on BASIC and were not fighting unintelligently. They were summoning hordes of creatures, shape-shifting into rats, bats and what not, sneaking past my front liners (even pushing them out of doorways which is highly illogical for a bat or rat, vampire or not), or hiding from sight and backstabbing my weaker party members (and with the four levels an ancient drains per hit, that means those party members die in 2-3 hits). Their shape-shifted forms were also damn near impossible to hit for my 12th level paladin, even with a +3 weapon and several buffs on him. Yep, I can reproduce that (it was just the Dominate I was struggling to understand). Mostly fixed locally, just need to test a few details. Link to comment
Jarno Mikkola Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 53 minutes ago, DavidW said: The issue is enemy-summoned summons. Their script blocks shouldn't be blocked by ActionListEmpty blocks. (It’s not a problem, one can just route around it with OR() ) Why not ? Yes, the attack actions can be emptied after a set of time(as in re-estimated)... which should be about a round(6 seconds) to complete all of the given. As well as casting ends after it's complete, or fails/interrupted. Movement again ends at the target or after the round. Yes, even if the target vanishes, it should take a few seconds to be re-estimated. Only interruption here again is the going hostile. After all, summons won't be casting permanent protections etc. as they kinda should have those already up. As in Protection from Evil etc. as they, wear them. Link to comment
Angel Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, DavidW said: Yep, I can reproduce that (it was just the Dominate I was struggling to understand). Mostly fixed locally, just need to test a few details. Alright, thanks. Well, at least I got to really stress-test that bastard sword +3 "Amaunator's Legacy" I modded in from IWD. ^^ Link to comment
DavidW Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Jarno Mikkola said: Why not ? Yes, the attack actions can be emptied after a set of time(as in re-estimated)... which should be about a round(6 seconds) to complete all of the given. As well as casting ends after it's complete, or fails/interrupted. Movement again ends at the target or after the round. Yes, even if the target vanishes, it should take a few seconds to be re-estimated. Only interruption here again is the going hostile. After all, summons won't be casting permanent protections etc. as they kinda should have those already up. As in Protection from Evil etc. as they, wear them. This is the wrong way to think about complex scripting. Don't think: "will any harm be caused by adding an ActionListEmpty() to every script block? ...I can't think of any, let's change it." Do think: "what is the actual situation in which I want an ActionListEmpty() check to apply? And how do I ensure that it happens in exactly those situations?" Link to comment
DrAzTiK Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Angel said: Point taken. Well, then in that case, when I encountered them in Fikraag's lair, vampires were definitely not easier than the vanilla game on BASIC and were not fighting unintelligently. They were summoning hordes of creatures, shape-shifting into rats, bats and what not, sneaking past my front liners (even pushing them out of doorways which is highly illogical for a bat or rat, vampire or not), or hiding from sight and backstabbing my weaker party members (and with the four levels an ancient drains per hit, that means those party members die in 2-3 hits). Their shape-shifted forms were also damn near impossible to hit for my 12th level paladin, even with a +3 weapon and several buffs on him. I hate this bunch of vampires in firkraag lair. The main problem is that they are basically to much numerous and stronger. ( and the fight takes place in a fucking corridor) Link to comment
DavidW Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, DrAzTiK said: I hate this bunch of vampires in firkraag lair. The main problem is that they are basically to much numerous and stronger. ( and the fight takes place in a fucking corridor) Pretty much everyone seems to hate them. Should I nerf them in Improved Vampires? Link to comment
TheLoneTremere Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Has the elder bug be looked into? (Sorry if i am a little impatient) Also, i think improved vampires should have the mass spam/transfermation to rats/wolves removed and replaced with something else. Maybe Ability drain of some sort? Link to comment
DrAzTiK Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, DavidW said: Pretty much everyone seems to hate them. Should I nerf them in Improved Vampires? personally, I vote for yes. Firgraak lair is the kind of quest supposed to be done quite early in the game and this bunch of vampires is too much Imo. Quote Also, i think improved vampires should have the mass spam/transfermation to rats/wolves removed and replaced with something else. Maybe Ability drain of some sort? for my part I do like the rats/wolves summoning. only ancien vampires summon them if I am not wrong Edited January 30, 2019 by DrAzTiK Link to comment
DrAzTiK Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Considering SCS turn Illych into a berseker, I think i could be better to remove his sling and give to him a melee attack script. just my opinion. Link to comment
DavidW Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 34 minutes ago, TheLoneTremere said: Has the elder bug be looked into? (Sorry if i am a little impatient) Not yet, but in any case I doubt I'll put any more bug fixes prior to v32 releasing. 34 minutes ago, TheLoneTremere said: Also, i think improved vampires should have the mass spam/transfermation to rats/wolves removed and replaced with something else. Maybe Ability drain of some sort? Not going to happen for v32, that's a substantive content change and not just a tweak or a bugfix. If you don't like improved vampires, you don't have to use it. Link to comment
Lianos Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 hours ago, DavidW said: Pretty much everyone seems to hate them. Should I nerf them in Improved Vampires? Yes please. Or reduce their numbers. Last time I thought I was smart and sneaked past to get to Firkraag, but on the way back a bunch of orcs was blocking the way out. I had to attack the orcs which was alarming the vampires... 20 attempts until I barely survived. Everthing else in this dungeon is a cakewalk against these friends. Link to comment
Angel Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 3 hours ago, DavidW said: Pretty much everyone seems to hate them. Should I nerf them in Improved Vampires? Part of the issue, I think, it that the spawning script has only four "tiers", so you often encounter something too weak or too strong for your level. More fine-tuning might help. Add to that that you start at a higher level when you've done Siege of Dragonspear and you'll see the higher tier spawns that much sooner, likely before you gather the equipment for your level. I tend to have similar issues with the beholder hive under the Temple District, especially with the level-dependent spawn just after the guardian bridge in the lower reaches. Mm, perhaps I should whip up some more varied and fine-grained spawning for one of my future mods, I have dabbled with it in the past. Something to think about... Link to comment
Lord_Tansheron Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 6 hours ago, DavidW said: Pretty much everyone seems to hate them. Should I nerf them in Improved Vampires? Even as someone who plays with everything cranked to 11 and likes it, they do seem a bit out of place there. That pack of vampires is the hardest fight in Firkraag's Lair, including Firkraag himself (who in all honesty might also just be a little undertuned for who he is but I guess people like getting their Carsomyr asap). On LoB especially the rat swarms and the tight quarters make the pack an absolute nightmare to deal with - and not in a good, boy-did-I-enjoy-being-challenged kind of way. Link to comment
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