Last call for SCS v32 fixes

[DavidW]

1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

Fireball can be cast previously?? ( )

No.

But there are a few other clones of evadable spells (albeit none I can think of from IWD).

1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

One possibility is to install the Evasion mod like Scales of Balance in between  the SCS component that add IWD spells and the component that makes clones of spells (which I assume is the AI component(s) - that way the clone spells shpuld already have Evasion baked in. 

Alternatively, install IWDification first. 

Agreed. SCS's version of the IWD spell system is really for people with a relatively minimal mod stack. If you want to make global tweaks to the spell system, it's simplest to use IWDification, though if you really want SCS's version, just install those components first.

 

1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

Alternatively, some searches in NI should identify the names of the SCS AI clone spells with Evadable effects... if someone PMs the list to me I'll add then to the Evasion mod and then it can just be installed after SCS. 

This is not a good idea (as a general strategy for modifying SCS) - I tend to generate spell filenames at install time, so they're not guaranteed consistent between two different installs (let alone between two versions of the mod).

 

5 minutes ago, Luke said:

In any case, as I said before, I don't understand why @DavidW cannot ship two versions of the IWDEE spells.

Scope creep.

[Luke]

17 minutes ago, DavidW said:

Scope creep.

I'm not sure I got this one

Are you saying that shipping two versions of those spells is out the scope of your mod? If that's the case, I guess I'll stop the installation after the first two components and then install the Evasion tweak (if you say it's safe to interrupt the installation, then OK.....)

[subtledoctor]

It sounds pretty unreasonable. Make and ship two different versions of the entire spell set (essentially, enfold two variant versions of IWDification into SCS)?  And find and modify all BG1/BG2/SoD spells and ship Evadable copies of them, just for the occasional player who wants to use Spell Evasion in their game? When no part of SCS is actually designed to add Evasion? 

Why go to all that extra trouble instead of just having players use other mods that can achieve the same result? (Not saying people have to use my mod - I know you don't like my version. But anyone who wants to make a Spell Evasion mod can make one... no need to shoehorn it into and existing mod.)

As for the difficulty with using a static list - understood. I should probably generate the list programmatically by looking at targeting and projectiles etc. When I get around to it. 

Setting aside IWD spells, what if Evasion is enabled before SCS is installed? If Fireball has the 324 effect, does the SCS AI component clone the existing version, thus adopting its compatibility with Evasion? Or do you craft your AI spells yourself?

Edited January 24, 2019 by subtledoctor

[Luke]

40 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Why go to all that extra trouble instead of just having players use other mods that can achieve the same result? (Not saying people have to use my mod - I know you don't like my version. But anyone who wants to make a Spell Evasion mod can make one... no need to shoehorn it into and existing mod.)

As far as Evasion is concerned, I prefer the IWDEE variant.... Having said that, I think your variant can be used to make some cool passive abilities for custom kits  (since it's compatible with any saving throw.....)

40 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Setting aside IWD spells, what if Evasion is enabled before SCS is installed? If Fireball has the 324 effect, does the SCS AI component clone the existing version, thus adopting its compatibility with Evasion? Or do you craft your AI spells yourself?

If I understood correctly, @DavidW said that it's safe to install SCS divine/priest spells (i.e., the first two components of SCS), quit the installation, install the Evasion tweak and then resume SCS's installation (so SCS should clone the modified spell......)

Edited January 24, 2019 by Luke

[DavidW]

1 hour ago, Luke said:

I'm not sure I got this one

Are you saying that shipping two versions of those spells is out the scope of your mod? 

Pretty much, yes. 

I could perfectly well have decided to add an Evasion component to the Gameplay part of SCS (it's in the overall scope of the mod, which has never been purely tactical/AI), but I haven't (and don't intend to, at least for v32), not least because there are other implementations out there. (I've been known to put things into SCS that have other implementations elsewhere, usually because I want to guarantee it's available for my AI and/or because I think I can do it better, but I've no plans to do that for evasion in SCS.) If I'm not going to do it properly myself, I don't want to do it half-heartedly, it just makes for an overcomplicated install and maintenance process.

1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

Setting aside IWD spells, what if Evasion is enabled before SCS is installed? If Fireball has the 324 effect, does the SCS AI component clone the existing version, thus adopting its compatibility with Evasion? Or do you craft your AI spells yourself?

I clone existing resources, for the most part. I don't *think* there are any bespoke Evadable spells. And my clone (at least on the local version, and prospectively in v32) modifies self-reference so should carry over Evasion opcodes. I do use YELLOW_DRAGON_BREATH, which is in-game but unused in unmodded games.

1 hour ago, Luke said:

If that's the case, I guess I'll stop the installation after the first two components and then install the Evasion tweak (if you say it's safe to interrupt the installation, then OK.....)

It's quite safe. (It should be safe for any mod, in principle.)

54 minutes ago, Luke said:

As far as Evasion is concerned, I prefer the IWDEE variant...

Out of interest, what are the in-game differences?

[Angel]

In my game, both Aerie and Jaheira have some errors in their spell lists regarding the new IWD spells.  I do not have any other mods installed that add IWD spells.

Jaheria: Sunscorch shows up on both her first- and second level spell list, Cure Moderate Wounds is on her second- and third level spell list, Storm Shell is on third- and fourth, and Giant Insect is on her fourth and fifth level spell list.  Haven't checked for higher levels yet as I am not that far in the game.

Aerie: Cause Light Wounds on first and second, Cure Moderate on second and third, Prayer and Favor of Ilmater are both on third and fourth.  Her fifth level spell list seems okay, again haven't checked higher than that.

 

[DavidW]

I need a WeiDU.log

[Angel]

Here you go.  Same setup worked fine with SCS 31 and the IWDification version of the IWD spells.

weidu.log

EDIT: I actually checked my baldur.gam with DLCTEP, it really is the same spell (spprxxxx) added twice at different levels.

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Angel

[Myrag]

Hey @DavidW what happened to 'no melee mode' in Ease of use AI. Selecting prefer ranged attacks doesn't give the same effect. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Myrag

[subtledoctor]

5 hours ago, DavidW said:

Out of interest, what are the in-game differences?

If I did my job right, only a text string ("Charname: save vs. Breath Weapon" vs. "Charname: evaded effects from Fireball")

I do think there is a place for a "properly" coded Evasion mod, now that it can be done. I think it's entirely within the scope of IWDification... if I had my druthers I would code it myself and just issue a pull request. 

[DrAzTiK]

another "bug" I discovered during my SoA game  :

almost 80 % of priests casting sanctuary (level 1) don't use this spell smartly : they cast sanctuary and attack in melee just after instead of curing themself, cure allies or summon creatures while protected by sanctuary.

[Luke]

10 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

If I did my job right, only a text string ("Charname: save vs. Breath Weapon" vs. "Charname: evaded effects from Fireball")

According to your ReadMe, there's also the possibility to use any spell state (not just 252 - Evasion) and any Save (not just Save vs. Breath)........ That's why I said it's something to keep in mind when designing new kit passive abilities (oh, we can also give Evasion to Rangers .......)

Edited January 25, 2019 by Luke

[TheLoneTremere]

Is it just me or does the elder orb kinda have some problems as in for some reason in text chat it tries to use an invalid ability with a series of numbers, if i recall correctly. As it tries to use that ability it forces my camera to go way out with the mini map and expands the entire area forcing me to refocus and arrange the camera. No crashes, just kinda  weird. This is in the planar spear of course.

Edited January 25, 2019 by TheLoneTremere

[DavidW]

49 minutes ago, TheLoneTremere said:

Is it just me or does the elder orb kinda have some problems as in for some reason in text chat it tries to use an invalid ability with a series of numbers, if i recall correctly. As it tries to use that ability it forces my camera to go way out with the mini map and expands the entire area forcing me to refocus and arrange the camera. No crashes, just kinda  weird. This is in the planar spear of course.

If you can give me exact instructions for reproducing it, I'll check it out.

[TheLoneTremere]

1 hour ago, DavidW said:

If you can give me exact instructions for reproducing it, I'll check it out.

 

Sure, i activated the golem and followed it to the room the elder orb beholder is in and engaged it alongside the golem in which said beholder would use an ability that doesn't exist and forces the screen to zoom out.