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Arthas

Some questions (spoilers)

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I remember that you could discover Melissan plans as soon as you reached Gromnir. But I'm not able to. What am I missing? All the dialogues reply I have are the one from the base game. Wheels of prophecy is installed.

Can't you tell amelissan to fuck off right after gromnir? I remember to have done it before.

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The first WoP intervention in Melissan’s dialogue is after you kill Yaga-Shura. I don’t mess with it before that - partly because there is less objective ground for suspicion at that stage, partly because it’s hard to reconcile it with the rest of Chapter 8 playing out normally.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the heads up

any chance for scales being added to the dragons in front of abazigal's lair?

Edited by Arthas

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1 hour ago, Arthas said:

Thanks for the heads up

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any chance for scales being added to the dragons in front of abazigal's lair?

 

That’s SCS, not WoP - though it’s an interesting question as to whether it could be added to WoP more naturally. 

 

As as for the scales - possibly, will consider.

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Posted (edited)

Okay anther question: Sendai army attacked Balthazar monastery, but it was only 25-30 hostiles at best. Did I miss something? Is sendai with them? Is it just a skirmish?

It didn't feel natural ;)

 

Edited by Arthas

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25-30 sounds on the low side, but roughly right- it’s reconnaissance in force, not a full invasion); and no, Sendai isn’t with them. (I don’t know what path you took, but if Balthazar is allied with you, he will have had a conversation with you and his monks about this.)

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I think it should be acknowledged better. Both the effects and what is going on....

What I mean is the following: Balthazar is supposed to have amassed an army too, but Sendai's army ignores everyone but you. Also, you don't even know when the army is "deflected" and no more are spawning.

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If Balthazar’s army is still around (i.e. you haven’t killed Balthazar) and they don’t fight against Sendai’s force, that’s a bug. Other than that, i’m not sure I see the issue: you are explicitly told (by Balthazar’s monks if you’re allied with him, by panicked villagers otherwise) who is attacking, and it’s not as if defeated armies normally leave messengers to announce that they have retreated. You have a lot more information as to what’s going on if you’re allied with Balthazar, but that’s only to be expected. (But i’ll keep it in mind next time I revise WoP.)

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Well, I saw your message only now, because I received no notification and as such, I apologize for the delay on the answer. I'll tell you how I experienced your mod.

Balthazar was already dead. In fact.... I wasn't even aware that Sendai's army would attack (I knew it because I read about it on the .net). Let's say I discovered it by accident: I was trying to do the quest for malla's soulstone and when I was entering the cave I saw a huge amount of peasants entering the gates saying "Sendai is attacking us". I was then attacked by the army after going in the middle of the map, but the whole experience turned out unsatisfying for the fact that there seems to be nothing truly on the stake.

Beside, there should be a peasant or a mercenary actually telling you no more soldiers seems to be coming, so you know, as player, that the fighting is over. Because when I fought the last one, I started scouting around only to realize later, that there was no one anymore. I think villagers would intervene right after you defeated the last one, either out of frustration, out of madness, out of kindness.

What I mean is, Bhaalspawns are going around ruining everything and the coincidental arrival of a Bhaalspawn that actually turned out killing Balthazar would surely cause madness amongst peasants and pillaging amongst the mercenaries that have no chief anymore.

Surely the mercenaries would start razing everything given that they have no one anymore that holds them in their hands. 

If Balthazar is dead -> Amkethran should become a smoking place, unless the Bhaalspawn comes in and actually stops the mercenaries, be it out of kindness or out of asking a reward to the peasants.
But mercenaries could even ask him to join them in the pillaging and share some of the richness they found (not even them all - and a wise Bhaalspawn would notice it)

if Balthazar is alive -> I entrust you with what should happen, because I didn't play this scenery yet.

But... you got the idea. Hoping to not have annoyed you because I realize that what I'm proposing is a big effort. Just some food for thoughts, no hard feelings if you say "meh, this can't be done".

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I'll take it under advisement.

I don't think the in-game evidence supports the theory that the mercenaries would pillage Amkethran, rather than just disperse in search of more lucrative prospects. They're mercenaries, not bandits (and they're Lawful Evil, not Chaotic Evil).

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Posted (edited)

There would be no authority, they are their own authority from the second Balthazar dies.
And there are examples of them actually abusing on population without any direct consequences from Balthazar, when he was alive... imagine right after him dead.

Edit 1: maybe they would not blatantly raze and destroy, but they would surely abuse the situation in some way.
Edit numer 2:

 


Remember, being Lawful does not imply at all that you have any moral standards, and any one of these character archetypes have just as much potential as a Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil character to be truly despicable. Being Lawful may involve some kind of ethical values or moral codes, but they're more about abstract rules than actually caring about other people; alternatively, a lawful character may work within and abuse the rules. Lawful Evil is not always the "nicest" of the Evil alignments, though in individual cases the Lawfulness may make for a Noble Demon. It is just the most consistent and orderly. In short, an evil character who feels that the rules is what gives them strength or superiority. This includes upholding Evil as an ideal in and of itself, coupled with a sense of duty to promote it wherever possible and by any means. They're likely to have standards, but they're just as likely to have a warped moral code regardless. Notably, Hextor, the iconic god of Lawful Evil in Dungeons & Dragons is not sympathetic in the slightest. That being said, many, perhaps most evil characters who end up siding with heroes permanently without undergoing a Heel–Face Turn tend to be Lawful Evil, as they are the most likely of the evil alignments to work within the system; type 1s are particularly prone to this, due to their views on order.

Finally, it should be remembered that while many Lawful Evil types (particularly type 1 types) may value the law and may obey it in many cases, being Lawful Evil does not necessarily mean that the character will necessarily obey the actual laws of the land — many of them are fully prepared to commit illegal acts or to twist the laws to their own purposes, and even to annihilate entire systems or civilizations. A Type 1 may justify this by saying they are trying to create a superior lawful society; a Type 2 may assume that their own personal code supersedes any loyalty to the authority of mere mortals; a Type 3 may think that the only law they obey is that of their own masters. No Lawful alignment is necessarily inclined to obey every law or any law.

From: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LawfulEvil

 

 

Edited by Arthas

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I’m not saying that it’s impossible to justify the mercenaries razing  or otherwise causing trouble, I’m saying that nothing in the game requires them to - as opposed to, e.g., just going away and looking for another employer. (And just as a matter of economics, this is a larger group of high-level skilled professionals whose established business is fighting for hire- destroying a meaningless village is not a natural business move for them).

If someone wrote a mod based around what the mercenaries would do after Balthazar’s death, I wouldn’t think it absurd if that mod had them run riot. But there’s no in-game need for that to happen and it’s not a story I was interested in telling (for many reasons, but not least because ‘some mercenaries run around causing trouble’ is a bit thematically out of place against the epic storylines of Throne of Bhaal).

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Is it this mod that makes Imoen renounce to her part of her essence during final Solar's encounter?

Edited by Arthas

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This mod doesn't alter Imoen's final dialogue. IIRC Ascension introduced her conferring her essence upon Charname, and Imoen Romance other options.

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