difficulty curve problem

[Guest synthphase]

I love the mod but I think there is a difficulty curve problem with it.

There are areas a PC can choose during each chapter. I'm not sure on the design of the mod but my sense is that the original game design aimed to make all the areas of somewhat equal difficulty at a particular level, insofar as the plot is more or less linear. This is especially true in Chapter 2 when you're just starting out and have no immunities or even very good AC. Is SCS deliberately deviating from the difficulty curve of the original game?

I'm getting my ass handed to me by the spectral trolls in the Druid Grove. Even at AC -10 and fighting Badly Wounded spectral trolls brings me down to about 5 strength in no time while maybe killing one out of three. I remember the trolls being decently hard before and it's a chapter 2 fight so I would argue it shouldn't be THAT hard. Maybe have an original version of the spectral troll without the insane regeneration and THAC0 for this map and save the buffed ones for later? Unless this mod is only for vets of the game and not meant for new players at all..

TLDR: I'm finding great inconsistencies with the difficulty in one area vs. another when both can be accessed during chapter 2.

[DavidW]

It sounds as if you’ve got components from the “tactical challenges” section installed - in which case, no: those are not really aimed at new players, unless they want a very severe challenge. 

[CrevsDaak]

Fighting Spirit Trolls in melee isn't exactly the best idea, unless you get yourself a weapon with low speed factor and kite them with it instead of taking the hits. You should also be using spells against them, and, yes, the Druid Grove is one of the areas that has it's difficulty increased the most out of all the tactical challenges. For the troll cove just get in and then get out as soon as you are spotted a few times so that you can fight the enemies in reduced groups instead.

[Vlan]

Oh boy, just wait until you meet Bodhi, or her mage Tanova. They're going to rip you a new one. I kinda had to edit some SCS encounters myself, because they were impossible to overcome with a RP party (no powergaming).

[DavidW]

People’s experience of which bits of SCS are easy or hard are very variable in my experience. FWIW my own playtests, on roughly what scs v32 would classify as ‘hardcore’ (but not ‘insane’) were with parties selected on mostly RP grounds, albeit with an eye to balance. So I’m sceptical of ‘impossible’ here.

 

[DavidW]

If you can’t beat Bodhi in chapter 2, run away! She’s on a timer, after all. 

I don’t think SCS forces you to go to Spellhold late any more than the original game does. In either case, you’re going to find Spellhold and the underdark much harder if you go there earlier, because the game pays almost no attention to your level. SCS raises the overall difficulty but doesn’t change that tradeoff. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen plenty of write ups of people’s SCS playthroughs where they’ve gone early to Spellhold - I don’t tend to myself but that’s more for RP reasons, since doing side quests in chapters 6-7 seems unrealistic.

There is a broader point here: BG2 in general does not even faintly scale the difficulty to your character. The various stronghold quests are of radically variable difficulty and (mostly) don’t get any harder if you do them later in the game. That’s quite different from the norm in most modern CRPGs but SCS embraces it rather than trying to do something about it. If an encounter is too difficult, retreat and do something more level-appropriate, and come back later when you’re more powerful. If that doesn’t appeal to you, you are probably playing the wrong game and you are definitely using the wrong mod.

[DavidW]

The fact that RP pulls you to Spellhold early is the motivation for the “higher cost for Spellhold” component of SCS.

[DavidW]

Clash with other mods: well, sure, not all mods are mutually compatible, conceptually or technically. If you install a mod component that clearly describes itself as requiring you to acquire 100,000gp, don’t install other mods that mean you can’t do that.

”Not doing the quests would be actually a doom for any playthrough”.

I repeat: people have definitely played through SCS successfully while going to Spellhold fairly early. There are radical variations in how good BG2 players are at different kinds of battles: the inference from “I can’t currently see a way to do this” to “this is impossible” isn’t reliable. 

Thieves: they do have potions, which they’re assumed to have bought. If you don’t want thieves to have potions, you shouldn’t have installed “potions for NPCs” (I don’t think those NPCs get potions except from that component).

[DavidW]

I think they work for Irenicus. I don’t recall any solid evidence that they are escapees (If I’m forgetting that evidence, though, point it out and I’ll do an override: the problem with automated code is that it only knows what I know and has to make heuristic guesses.)

[n-ghost]

You CAN hoard 100k even with Store Revisions (IIRC, it caps all +1 items to 250g per sell, +2 to 500 etc, right?). Did that back in v31. Come to think of it, you can even afford 50k Cowled Wizards ticket on top of that too.

 

Be really really considerate when dealing with money and loot literally every rusty short sword that ever drops. Buying the shinies can wait before Underdark.

[subtledoctor]

Try the relatively new "Imoen is Stone" mod to take pressure off going to Spellhold early. (No idea how it might interact with the Imoen Romance mod, I've never used it. Would Imien be subject to a Flesh To Stone spell, temporarily, mess up that story?)

[laclongquan]

Regarding OP's question.

There's a definite broken curve of difficulty. And you are supposed to leave the difficult stuffs for when you can. If you cant leave it for later, try to reload to a point when you can do so.

Say The Lich party protecting the Dex18 gauntlet leading to beholder lair. It's hellish, with Lich can cast Fallen Deva who can oneshot (vorpal hit) anyone, aside from the usual Timestop, dragon breath, and comet.

But the beholder lair and other part can be much easier.

So you can leave that sole part until two or three level higher later.

Or Cern quest where you can clash with one Lich and one major caster in that small tiny room. "just right after I wander in peacefully from the street..." it could be seriously unhealthy for your party, and require your level is much higher than usual to deal with two casters in that small room. Luckily you can reload from the area save.

[DavidW]

If you are playing at a difficulty that permits SoA liches to get HLAs, you have only yourself to blame.

[n-ghost]

On 6/6/2019 at 3:34 PM, DavidW said:

If you are playing at a difficulty that permits SoA liches to get HLAs, you have only yourself to blame.

FWIW, if you're looking for a bit of a feedback, the only moderately difficult encounters I can think about back in v31 BGT run, were:

- BG1 final battle (actually didn't manage to complete it without cheesing, i.e. as a fair party vs. party engagement);

- some cramped house interiors inside Underdark: gazillion of drow priests that summon gazillions of bears (eh), spiders, skeletons and aerial servants, actually preventing your party from moving at all. The only time I had to use invisibility potions;

- Improved Tactics-like Bodhi -- generally because of many friendly fire opportunities with useless allies who I want to keep alive, and, again, lack of space;

- Gromnir's party. Like BG1 end-fight, except those guys actually want to kill you and steal your G3 account. Not sure how to complete that one without heavy abuse of stairwells.

 

Charname was a dual-wielding longsword Inquisitor with dispel power reduced to 1.5. Difficulty was Insane with double damage turned on. 

Sadly, was forced to stop (and eventually abandon altogether due to RL stuff) because of some glitchery in a cutscene after Abazigal's death. Still, got pretty close to the end.

 

Kobolds inside Nashkel mines are fun, liches with HLAs are self-explanatory. Beholder hives are grindy, if anything. Illithids are mildly annoying, but far from lethal due to the base game psionic protection abundance. All enemies altogether behaved realistically enough so it didn't feel unfair or anything like that.

Looking forward to try v32 when the initial release dust settles down a bit. Thank you for an awesome mod that actually became a part of my life somewhat.

Edited June 8, 2019 by n-ghost

[chuft]

I am trying this mod out and getting routinely wiped out in the early part of the game by enemies (assassin at Friendly Arm Inn, Waylaid by Enemies Ogre Mage, guy in Nashkel carnival tent etc) using multiple Sleep spells or Color Sprays and taking out the entire party.

Hit characters don't wake up.  I don't remember the spell acting this way, but it has been awhile since I played IE games.

Definitely a real challenge already. I am not able to buy any magic items because all my money is going to Raise Deads.