Unearthed Arcana presents Faiths & Powers: Gods of the Realms

[Cahir]

Hmm, do you know which Refinements components exactly install new kits? Because I don't need Refinements kits. I have selected following components from Refinments:

101: Fighter HLAs

102: Barbarian HLAs

103: Ranger HLAs

104: Paladin HLAs

107: Monk HLAs

108: Wizard HLAs

109: Bard HLAs

110: Thief HLAs

40: Universal Lesser Mage Robes   In case none of those components install new kits, I can then safely put Refinements after FnP Multiclass?

[subtledoctor]

Refinements installs “shadow kits” purely for technical reasons. The kits are clones of the Blade and the Shapeshifter druid... but I think they are installed in the base operations that run whenever you install any HLAs for any class. Your options are: 1) edit the Refinements file to comment out the kit cloning; or 2) install Refinements earlier. Either option should work fine, I think, given your mod list. 

7 hours ago, Cahir said:

How does FnP apply kits to NPC's? Do I have a choice which kit add to a specific NPC? For example if I want to turn Viconia into a cleric of Selune, can I do it? Or she automatically get Cleric of Shar or other more appropriate kit? 

It simply applies the kit directly to the .CRE file. Then when the person joins your party, the game automatically levels them up and applies kit abilities.

There is no choice - for that you can use Level1NPCs / NPC_EE / SCS. (In which case, I guess you don’t need the FnP “apply kits to NPCs” component...)

[Cahir]

Question. FnP readme states that Item Revisions should be installed before FnP. Does this mean only the main component of IR or all components (including Store Revisions) should be installed before FnP? 

[subtledoctor]

2 hours ago, Cahir said:

Question. FnP readme states that Item Revisions should be installed before FnP. Does this mean only the main component of IR or all components (including Store Revisions) should be installed before FnP? 

Just the main component.  Sorry that's not clearer.

[zelurker]

Just to report some testing with this mod :

I used gavin mod this time, installed before faiths, he has a dawnbringer of lathander kit. The very old doc of faith says he should have full access to the benediction sphere, but he has not from his class description. In 1 game he had the bless spell at level 1 though, but it seems to be random and unlikely because in another he hadn't any spell from the blessing sphere. Ok, it's possible to play without bless, and it's mainly useful when starting a new game in bg1, but still, we are used to have this as a base spell, even Jaheira has it in the unmodded game... There's nothing to do about that ?

About the paladin kits : most of the kits loose their innate usual powers such as lay on hands, protection from evil, and even detect evil, and it's not even stated in the kit description. I call these the base paladin powers, even more useful than the spells since the spells come much later when you start a new game. This makes the "divine champion" kit from the artisan kitpack more useful than all these kits, maybe a little overpowered, but he looses just his cleric spells for being able to specialize (4 +) in any melee weapon and he still has his innate powers !

Anyway impressive mod, just my 2c after testing it for a while, now I wonder if I'll start yet another game without it, or learn to play with that...

[subtledoctor]

Bless/Chant/Prayer etc. are now in the All/Universal sphere, the Benediction sphere has been replaced by Creation. All Universal spells are available to all priests... if you don’t have them immediately, they will appear the next time you level up. 

EDIT - as for paladins: I hear you, although I don't feel particularly compelled to match other modders who make (in my view) overpowered kits.  It's not as easy as simply giving the basic paladin abilities to all paladins; we have neutral and evil paladins here, so why would they have Detect Evil?  Even Lay On Hands is questionable. 

That said, we have discussed before that champions and zealots are due for some refurbishing.  So improving them, and maybe adding some general traits shared across kits (or at least across kits of each alignment) is definitely on the table.   We welcome suggestions!  (The more detailed, the better.)  While I think this mod is pretty great (if I do say so myself), it is still not finished.  I think it could stand to have a few more druid kits, we still need to flesh out the cleric of Malar vs. druidic Beast Lord, and there is still the question of Holy Symbols.  So, as always, we welcome this kind of feedback!

Edited April 26, 2020 by subtledoctor

[zelurker]

Ah ok, I had suspected this, now the thing is to wait for the 1st level in bg1... thanks !

[Reavy]

Hi, sorry if this is a dumb question - how does this affect enemy NPCs? This mod looks like an excellent addition, but it made me wonder what impact it has on opposing clerics and what not. Does this mod alter them at all, or are their spell lists pre-determined? I am unaware of how it works, and figured I could ask.

[subtledoctor]

51 minutes ago, Reavy said:

Hi, sorry if this is a dumb question - how does this affect enemy NPCs? This mod looks like an excellent addition, but it made me wonder what impact it has on opposing clerics and what not. Does this mod alter them at all, or are their spell lists pre-determined? I am unaware of how it works, and figured I could ask.

Their spell lists are pre-determined, and if you play with SCS enemy caster AI, SCS might define them. This mod does not affect any of that. 

That means, perforce, that enemy spell lists will not match up to the spells by sphere if any kit in this mod. But that’s okay; just figure that enemies have their own kits, and you don’t know what that is (they’re not exactly going to discuss their religion with you as they try to murder you), and their kit has access to the precise spells that they happen to have memorized. 

Convenient? Sure. But also realistic, and it eliminates the risk that a mod like thus could be detrimental to your gameplay experience. We’re playing it safe in this regard. 

[Marvin]

On 4/8/2020 at 6:03 PM, Guest Marvin said:

Hi Guys,

I discovered by chance this mod, and it seems really good to renew the experience for and old player like me. I used to play DR, but I'd give a shot to FnP in my next game.

I haven't tried yet, but I have already come across few bugs/issues/little things which could be corrected.

Before that : My install is GOG version with Modmerge only, FnP, FnP multi and nothing else. I'm using Faiths_and_Powers-79sd9.2

Here's the list :

-1) Except Humans and Half-elves, other races cannot select any kit for druid or mystic warrior etc.... Is it intentional?

-2) Without using LeUI, the list of kits is too long to be properly displayed. Especially for Clerics.

-3) The Druid section propose 3 types of "druids" presented as "Druid", "Mystic" and "Occultist" . So long I haven't seen any "Occultist" kit in any race section. Maybe it is for later? Besides, it could be interested to specify the particularity of each in term of armor/weapon, spells or whatever. Example : I noticed that a Mystic warrior has access to all weapons, but a Fire Mystic warrior has heavy restrictions. Best Master has again another list of usable weapons...

-4) Shadow druid and lost druid are presented is the github website, but don't appear in my install.

-5) In the Cleric kit section, I noticed that there are Clerics and Priests. For some divinity, a priest and a cleric versions are available. It could be interesting to specify what are the general features of those two groups.

-6) In my game, the Priest of Tempus appears twice in the kit selection.

-7) The Barbarian/Shaman multiclass has 9HP per level, when it should be 10HP. (12+8)/2

So far that's all.

I also have some questions about the compatibility with Spell Revision, how does it work?

Thanks for your work.

Hi Guys,

I guess me previous message remained unattended, therefore I post it once again. Hope it might help.

Moreover, I have a few more reviews to give after playing little bit :

I played with Charname as a Figther/Priest of Tyr, and Jaheira as a single classe druid. To note as well that I play with SpellRev ans SCS which might alter my experience.

-8- Druids have access from level 1 to a summon which seems to me to be seriously overpowered ; it could kill a couple of watchers in Candelkeep without been hurt...
In addition, they have access from level 3 to metamorphoses into animals; in the case of the basic druid (forest), it is the ferret and the wolf. The ferret is super cool, because it moves super fast, and is invisible to enemies for a round, making it an outstanding scout (especially if the druid casts detection of traps beforehand).
The wolf is also very interesting, with an AC of 0, a thaco of 16 (at level 3, 14 at level 4 ...), 5-11dmg and 3/2 attacks per round. So a druid with 3000xp (level 3) strikes as hard as a warrior of the same xp with 18/51 of strenght, with a bastard sword and in full plate ...
If we add to that that the metamorphoses are unlimited, it's still a bit OP in my opinion.
Finally, the Druids can now use the Long Bows, which adds if necessary, an additional advantage.
Jaheira in my group (Charname, Minsc Imoen Khalid and Dynaheir) got 25% of the kills so long ; Only Minsc (barbarian) gets more.

NB : One small bug I noticed : The shield bonus still applies in Animal form.

 

-9- I think it is a misuse of both FnP and SpellRev, but Charname, as a priest of Tyr, have access from level one to an improved unlocking spell, since it opens the locked lockers (star sapphire for free at the Candelkeep inn ...), but can also be used on the enemies to deal 2d6 damages to them plus a round of unconsciousness (save to cancel) ... A little too much I guess
Other than that, I have the equivalent from level one to a spell of Fetch into divine power, and one that removes fear, confusion etc ... and this, in innate faculty ... I guess it needs some balance here as well.

 

All together, I think this mod is great, and at the same time, it slightly improved the classes especially druids. Of course less than most of the kits mods, for they almost are grosbill kits.

 

 

-10- Last but not least question : How does the compatibility with SpellRev. Does the Sphere system of FnP just patches the spells modified by SpellRev or overwrite them? What about the Divine spells added by other mods? Are they going to be part of the sphere system?

Thanks

[Reavy]

13 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Their spell lists are pre-determined, and if you play with SCS enemy caster AI, SCS might define them. This mod does not affect any of that. 

That means, perforce, that enemy spell lists will not match up to the spells by sphere if any kit in this mod. But that’s okay; just figure that enemies have their own kits, and you don’t know what that is (they’re not exactly going to discuss their religion with you as they try to murder you), and their kit has access to the precise spells that they happen to have memorized. 

Convenient? Sure. But also realistic, and it eliminates the risk that a mod like thus could be detrimental to your gameplay experience. We’re playing it safe in this regard. 

All right, good to know! I think you are right that it doesn't break immersion or anything either, as you explained it.  Thanks.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Reavy

[subtledoctor]

Sorry, must have missed this:

On 4/8/2020 at 12:03 PM, Guest Marvin said:

-1) Except Humans and Half-elves, other races cannot select any kit for druid or mystic warrior etc.... Is it intentional?

Will look into it.  Only humans and half-elves can be druids in the base game, so this is nothing new... I don't recall whether and to what extent we planned to liberalize this.  Sounds like the answer is, "not much, yet."

On 4/8/2020 at 12:03 PM, Guest Marvin said:

-2) Without using LeUI, the list of kits is too long to be properly displayed. Especially for Clerics.

The UI is the UI.  You just need to scroll through the list.

On 4/8/2020 at 12:03 PM, Guest Marvin said:

-3) The Druid section propose 3 types of "druids" presented as "Druid", "Mystic" and "Occultist" . So long I haven't seen any "Occultist" kit in any race section. Maybe it is for later? Besides, it could be interested to specify the particularity of each in term of armor/weapon, spells or whatever. Example : I noticed that a Mystic warrior has access to all weapons, but a Fire Mystic warrior has heavy restrictions. Best Master has again another list of usable weapons...

We made a couple of Occultist kits, but lately we are re-thinking the classifications of these sub-classes.  As for weapons, each is different.  Mystics are based on the druid class, Mystic Warriors are based on the fighter/druid class.  Beastmaster is a ranger, while Beast Lord is a type of druid (formerly an Occultist, but the difference is in name only).  Each has its own weapon usage.

On 4/8/2020 at 12:03 PM, Guest Marvin said:

-4) Shadow druid and lost druid are presented is the github website, but don't appear in my install.

The Shadow Druid is there, but you cannot choose it in the normal fashion... you have to become one in-game.  It's sort of like a paladin falling, though of course not as punitive in a mechanical sense.  I hope we added it at an appropriately dramatic place, and it is enjoyable... I don't want to say any more than that for fear of spoiling things.  Bit I'll say in spoiler tags,

Spoiler

In the Cloakwood forest, when dealing with the druids there, if you let your Bhaal nature lead your actions, you will face a fateful choice.

On 4/8/2020 at 12:03 PM, Guest Marvin said:

-5) In the Cleric kit section, I noticed that there are Clerics and Priests. For some divinity, a priest and a cleric versions are available. It could be interesting to specify what are the general features of those two groups.

We used to have more strict differences between clerics and priests (we called priests "Acolytes"); clerics could wear heavier armor and use more weapons, while priests  had extra spellcasting.  After playing with the mod for a year or two, we recently decided to collapse the difference and instead let each kit be defined by its own set of characteristics, which may look more like a cleric or more like a priest.

On 4/8/2020 at 12:03 PM, Guest Marvin said:

-6) In my game, the Priest of Tempus appears twice in the kit selection.

Yes, there are two different kits for priests of Tempus.

On 4/8/2020 at 12:03 PM, Guest Marvin said:

-7) The Barbarian/Shaman multiclass has 9HP per level, when it should be 10HP. (12+8)/2

Will look into it.  This may be hard-coded.

On 4/8/2020 at 12:03 PM, Guest Marvin said:

I also have some questions about the compatibility with Spell Revision, how does it work?

100% compatible.

[subtledoctor]

7 hours ago, Marvin said:

Druids have access from level 1 to a summon which seems to me to be seriously overpowered ; it could kill a couple of watchers in Candelkeep without been hurt...

Druids get a single chance each day to summon a spirit animal, same as what the Totemic Druid can do multiple times per day.  These spirit animals are unchanged from the vanilla game - the level 1 spirit animal is the same as what a vanilla Totemic Druid can summon at level 1.

 

7 hours ago, Marvin said:

In addition, they have access from level 3 to metamorphoses into animals; in the case of the basic druid (forest), it is the ferret and the wolf. The ferret is super cool, because it moves super fast, and is invisible to enemies for a round, making it an outstanding scout (especially if the druid casts detection of traps beforehand).
The wolf is also very interesting, with an AC of 0, a thaco of 16 (at level 3, 14 at level 4 ...), 5-11dmg and 3/2 attacks per round. So a druid with 3000xp (level 3) strikes as hard as a warrior of the same xp with 18/51 of strenght, with a bastard sword and in full plate ...

I can take a look at the balance of the animal shapeshifts.  They start fairly weak (simple wolf) and grow in power as the druid reaches higher levels (dire wolf, lion, bear).  I didn't find them to be that powerful - when I used Jaheira in shapeshifted form, I found that her AC was pretty bad and she tended to take a lot of damage.

 

7 hours ago, Marvin said:

Finally, the Druids can now use the Long Bows, which adds if necessary, an additional advantage.

Yup. 

 

7 hours ago, Marvin said:

I think it is a misuse of both FnP and SpellRev, but Charname, as a priest of Tyr, have access from level one to an improved unlocking spell, since it opens the locked lockers (star sapphire for free at the Candelkeep inn ...), but can also be used on the enemies to deal 2d6 damages to them plus a round of unconsciousness (save to cancel) ... A little too much I guess

That's the SR spell Battering Ram (or whatever it's called).  I think it's level 2 by default, your priest may get it earlier as a special kit perk, having "focus access" to that spell.  Or maybe we made it level 1 to balance the spheres?  I forget.  The spell might seem great now but it doesn't scale - it become pretty useless by later on, eclipesd by Magic Missile as early as 5th level.

 

7 hours ago, Marvin said:

Other than that, I have the equivalent from level one to a spell of Fetch into divine power, and one that removes fear, confusion etc ... and this, in innate faculty ... I guess it needs some balance here as well.

Pretty sure you are describing the innate abilities for the priest of Tyr, which are the same as in the unmodded game.  Talk to the devs...

 

7 hours ago, Marvin said:

 Last but not least question : How does the compatibility with SpellRev. Does the Sphere system of FnP just patches the spells modified by SpellRev or overwrite them? What about the Divine spells added by other mods? Are they going to be part of the sphere system?

We don't change any SR spells, except to occasionally move one to a different spell level.  The sphere system incorporates SR spells though, since I think SR spells are pretty great.  It also incorporates the spells from IWD. 

[4udr4n]

Hi @subtledoctor, do you know how FnP giving Anomen the Watcher of Helm kit will interact with NPC Kitpack giving him the Helm kit after his quest or giving him the Berserker kit?

Specifically:

1. Does Faiths_and_Powers:85:Apply FnP kits to NPCs give him the Watcher of Helm kit as standard, before his quest line?
2. When npckit:400:Anomen Gains Helm Kit on Passing Knighthood Test tries to give him the Helm kit, will it find the FnP kit or the vanilla one?
3. Does FnP patch or replace the old priest kits?
4. What if I have used divine_remix:51:Remove All Kits to delete the vanilla priest kits?
5. Will npckit:410:Anomen Gains Berserker Kit on Failing Knighthood Test replace the Watcher of Helm kit if he already has it?
6. Also, while I'm here, if I want the Divine Remix kits, do I need to install them with Divine Remix, or are they also included in FnP?
7. What overlap is there between divine_remix:200:Druid Remix and divine_remix:100:Cleric Remix with FnP?
8. Do you have a list of all of the kits that Faiths_and_Powers:85:Apply FnP kits to NPCs and Faiths_and_Powers_Multiclass:99:Apply FnP multiclass kits to NPCs apply to companions?

 

[subtledoctor]

7 hours ago, 4udr4n said:

Does Faiths_and_Powers:85:Apply FnP kits to NPCs give him the Watcher of Helm kit as standard, before his quest line?

The FnP NPC stuff is over here.  It checks for whether the relevant FnP is actually installed (you can disable it in the .ini file, or you might cleric kits but not druid, or vice versa), and if the kit exists, it applies it to the NPC.  In Anomen's case, it is the "B_CLERIC_HELM" kit, which is FnP's version of the cleric of Helm.  (I don't recall whether we call it a "Watcher" or not... I think yes.)

 

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When npckit:400:Anomen Gains Helm Kit on Passing Knighthood Test tries to give him the Helm kit, will it find the FnP kit or the vanilla one?

That mod ceased development before FnP existed, so I assume it will give him the vanilla kit, or one installed by that mod.  This means he would switch from one Helm kit to another.  If you don't like the sound of that (it's a bit weird - unless it is done in a coordinated fashion, which in this case it is not), then you shouldn't install this component of NPCKit.

 

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Does FnP patch or replace the old priest kits?

In some cases, maybe?  I don't recall, and it has changed over time.  In Helm's case, we just add a new one, as you see.  @Grammarsalad is the maker of most cleric kits, he might know better than me.  The vanilla kits are still there, though, even if ordinarily inaccessible.

 

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What if I have used divine_remix:51:Remove All Kits to delete the vanilla priest kits?

I don't think that deletes them, just removes them from menus.  Which our mod does as well, so the DR component is unnecessary.

 

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Will npckit:410:Anomen Gains Berserker Kit on Failing Knighthood Test replace the Watcher of Helm kit if he already has it?

It will replace any kit he already has - you can only have one kit at a time. So this should, in theory, be perfectly compatible with FnP.

 

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Also, while I'm here, if I want the Divine Remix kits, do I need to install them with Divine Remix, or are they also included in FnP?

Install DR, before FnP.  (See my weidu.log in your thread.)  They will be compatible with all FnP systems. 

 

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What overlap is there between divine_remix:200:Druid Remix and divine_remix:100:Cleric Remix with FnP?

Both mods add clerics of the same deities; if you don't trim anything, you will get multiple cleric kits for Sune, Cyric, and one or two others.  This is fine IMO; I think of them as different sects, whose adherents have different kit abilities.  And that way I don't have to decide in advance, I can choose whichever kit seems fun in the moment while I'm playing the game.  But if you don't want your kit menus bloated by multiple kits for each deity, you can disable installing them from one mod or the other.

 

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Do you have a list of all of the kits that Faiths_and_Powers:85:Apply FnP kits to NPCs and Faiths_and_Powers_Multiclass:99:Apply FnP multiclass kits to NPCs apply to companions?

See link above.

• Forest Druid for Jaheira and Faldorn
• Champion of Helm for Keldorn and Ajantis
• Cleric of Helm for Anomen (there's too much Helm in these games!)
• Cleric of Deneir for Finch
• Cleric of Umberlee for Tenya
• Cleric of Shar for Viconia
• Champion of Arvoreen for Mazzy (but you can choose in-game not to apply this to her)
• Cleric of Lathander for Gavin
• Cleric of Talos for Dave
• Cleric of Baravar for Quayle and Glint
• Cleric of Clangeddin for Yeslick
• Cleric of Baervan for Aerie

If you install multiclass clerics later, the "Apply Multiclass Kits to NPCs" will replace these with proper multiclass kits, where appropriate.  It also covers Korin, Dusky, Turald, and Nella.  (Which I think are all IWD NPCs.)

(Arath is not covered by this; I just played with him for the first time.  I guess he is an Avenger by default, which means in FnP he becomes a Hivekeeper.  That may or not be good for him... I haven't decided yet wht is the best course for him.  (Who is the author of that NPC?  We should ask them before making any changes.))

Edited April 28, 2020 by subtledoctor