Unearthed Arcana presents Faiths & Powers: Gods of the Realms

[subtledoctor]

On 11/12/2022 at 8:51 AM, Guest Person said:

Conjure Water Elemental is broken. The installer attempts to create the spell by cloning Conjure Fire Elemental and modifying it. I get two additional copies of Conjure Fire Elemental, one exactly as before but swapped to Water sphere in the description, and another with the correct description. Both appear with Water access and both summon fire elementals. The water elemental creatures are installed, but aren't used by the spell.

Do you need a hotfix for this?

EDIT - and for this?

On 11/12/2022 at 8:51 AM, Guest Person said:

When un-shapeshifting from a HLA form, only the visual effects are removed.

EDIT 2 - here is a hotfix, in any event. Probably anyone using FnP v0.84 should use this hotfix. The fixes will be included in the 0.85 release.

Edited November 13, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Guest Person]

Didn't quite work - the transformation weapons recursively cast the spell on a delay, so the effects get added back after the un-transform. Not sure why that's there, removing it doesn't seem to immediately break anything.

[subtledoctor]

Wha?? That’s crazy. I must admit 1) I rarely actually play through ToB levels, and rarely use HLAs. And 2) those HLAs are borrowed whole-cloth from the Refinements mod. (I would rather adopt versions that are already good and known, than make a dozen different versions of the same abilities.) So I guess I need to take a look at how they work in Refinements and whether they need adjustments. My very speculative guess would be that Refinements might have done that to counter the old Dispel-Magic-vs.-shapeshift bug/exploit, where you can end up with a partial set of the characteristics of a shapeshift form. What you are describing would ensure that all aspects of the elemental form remain as long as part of it is active. 

Of course that may not be needed anymore in the EEs, and if it is a delayed/repeated effect, then maybe something simple like a 206 effect added to the Natural Form ability could fix things. I’ll take a look.

[Guest Person]

If it's not on the agenda already, "alter priests' weapon/armor usability" might want a once-over. It's my top candidate for the blanket disappearance of alignment restrictions on some armours in my install, e.g. Archmagi robes.

Also apparently making said robes usable by Fighter multiclasses without setting the Kensai restriction lets a Kensai/Cleric wear them. Was that always how that worked?

[subtledoctor]

2 hours ago, Guest Person said:

It's my top candidate for the blanket disappearance of alignment restrictions on some armours in my install, e.g. Archmagi robes

Well, this was an easy test: I just installed the mod, and archmagi robes still have their usual alignment restrictions. So, you'll have to look elsewhere.

2 hours ago, Guest Person said:

apparently making said robes usable by Fighter multiclasses without setting the Kensai restriction lets a Kensai/Cleric wear them

I was about to say "why on earth would this mod make robes of the archmagi usable by fighter multiclasses?" But the mod does set the F/C flag for some armors, and I just noticed something odd: while most robes are type 32 "robes and cloaks," some robes are set to type 2 "armor." I don't know why robes would have the  "armor" item type, but it is a simple fix, it will go into the 0.85 builds.

Consider the once-over done, I guess...

[Guest Person]

I still think FnP 75 is the culprit even if it's not in isolation. Maybe I've broken something locally (I think the only change I've made is to sphere access), or maybe it's a compatibility issue, or maybe it's already been fixed. I'll post this anyway in case you feel like humoring me:

LEAT21 backup before FnP 75 has the correct restrictions, LEAT21 backup before G3 tweaks is missing restrictions. Mods between FnP 75 and tweaks:

Spoiler

~FAITHS_AND_POWERS/FAITHS_AND_POWERS.TP2~ #0 #80 // Apply sphere system (REQUIRED for the sphere system to work): 0.84.4
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #50 // Move the Cavalier to the Fighter Class: 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #55 // Add the Corsair (fighter kit): 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #60 // Add the Weaponmaster (fighter kit): 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #80 // Add the Tomb Tunner (fighter/thief kit): 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #85 // Add the Thug (fighter/thief kit): 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #90 // Add the Rake (thief kit) and revise the Swashbuckler: 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #96 // Add the Ninja (thief kit): 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #97 // Add the Ninja (fighter/thief kit): 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #105 // Add the Spellfilcher (mage/thief kit): 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #110 // Add the Loremaster (mage/thief kit): 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #151 // Add the Archer as a fighter kit: 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #160 // Add the Halfling Slinger (fighter/thief kit): 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #165 // Add the Marksman (thief kit): 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #220 // Revised Multiclassing: 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #225 // Revised Ranger Spell Table: 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #230 // Revised Stalker: 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #240 // Improved Rangers: 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #265 // Revised Monk Fists: 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #280 // Revised Backstabbing: 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #450 // Add the Jongleur (bard kit): 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #460 // Add the Loremaster (bard kit): 5alpha10
~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #490 // Add the Loresinger (bard kit): 5alpha10
~FNP_MULTICLASS/FNP_MULTICLASS.TP2~ #0 #91 // Multiclass Druids: 0.84.4
~FNP_MULTICLASS/FNP_MULTICLASS.TP2~ #0 #92 // Multiclass Shamans: 0.84.4
~FNP_MULTICLASS/FNP_MULTICLASS.TP2~ #0 #95 // Multiclass Cleric kits (install AFTER all other kit mods!!): 0.84.4
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES/SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #12 // Update Skills for Bards -> Add Lockpicking and Find/Disarm Traps: v0.9-alpha
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES/SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #20 // Update Skills for Monks: v0.9-alpha
~SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES/SKILLS-AND-ABILITIES.TP2~ #0 #50 // Add Detect Illusion for Wizard Slayer: v0.9-alpha
~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #10 // Deva and Planetar Animations: v4 Beta 18 (Revised v1.3.900)
~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #20 // Mirror Image Fix: v4 Beta 18 (Revised v1.3.900)
~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #30 // Dispel Magic Fix: v4 Beta 18 (Revised v1.3.900)
~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #60 // Update Spellbooks of Joinable NPCs: v4 Beta 18 (Revised v1.3.900)
~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #65 // Revised Warrior HLAs: v4 Beta 18 (Revised v1.3.900)
~FORGOTTEN-ARMAMENT/FORGOTTEN-ARMAMENT.TP2~ #0 #10 // NWN2 Style Weapons: v1.1
~FORGOTTEN-ARMAMENT/FORGOTTEN-ARMAMENT.TP2~ #0 #4 // Update Items Setting an Ability Score to Increment the Increase: v1.1

The only one of these which doesn't create a backup is SR. None of them seem to modify the file. Same applies to other affected items like OHDARMOR and the mistaken robes: they all show up in the FnP 75 backup and they all have the correct restrictions there.

[subtledoctor]

4 hours ago, Guest Person said:

I still think FnP 75 is the culprit

I mean, all I can do is test the mod, right? And the mod doesn't seem to do that. And further, I don't know how the mod could do it: the alignment restrictions are at 0x1e in the .ITM file, and FnP in several places does this:

READ_BYTE 0x1e class_1
WRITE_BYTE 0x1e (%class_1% BAND 0b01111111)

That is un-setting the first bit of that byte to make the item usable by clerics - the BAND means the value of each bit will be set to 1 if both the existing value and the prescribed value is 1. The restriction against being equipped by good characters, like the Human Flesh armor or the Robe of Evil Archmagi, is in the 6th bit. The code above prescribes a value of 1 in the 6th bit, so the only way the item could have that bit un-set (allow the item to be equipped by good characters) is if the bit was already 0 when FnP encounters it.

You know, unless I'm misunderstanding something.

The super weird thing is, I dug a bit more into this, and I checked my current install, and indeed just like yours, LEAT21.ITM can be equipped by good characters. I ran weidu --change-log on the item, and it spat out seven different mod components that altered LEAT21. I grabbed all those mods and installed them on a clean BG2EE game, and... the result was different, LEAT21 properly excluded good characters from equipping it. (The 6th bit was set to 1 at 0x1e of the file.) That's super weird - installing all the mods in the change-log led to a different result?  I can only conclude one of two things:

1. Being part of a much more heavily-modded environment made a difference in how that item was affected by these mods... but in a way that doesn't show up in change-log?
2. Maybe there was a problem with one of those seven mods, but it has since been fixed, and the problem is no longer present in the versions that I installed in my test?

If it's down to #1, I'm not sure how to continue troubleshooting. Putting hundreds and hundreds of mods together greatly increases the chances of things getting out of whack, and "mega mod" players have always dealt with that.

If it's down to #2, then... problem already solved!

[Krenn]

When I install the latest version of Faith and Powers, including all of the multi-class options,   I lose the ability the select the fighter-cleric-mage  multiclass.  that option just disappears from the character creation menu.

[Guest Connelly]

I was testing the Artisan Kitpack's fighter and Ranger overhauls compatibility with MnG, and I saw no overt problems with AK on top of MnG except for loosing your nerfs. I wasn't going to bother to try the same between AK's Paladin and FnP's, the base class and some of the vanilla kits are clearly redundant. But I saw nothing explicit in FnP about replacing the Cavalier, the Blackguard as AK does, or alternatives for its Mystic Fire and Martyr, and they don't seem to require AK's base overhaul. Plus I like playing with Sirene, who uses the same Martyr kit.

So the question is, if I wanted them to be affected by your base changes (ie: earlier access to priest spell or your version of Smite), would FnP go over previously installed kits? Assuming here that those kits won't break anything about FnP, of course.

Also, I'm getting confused about the installation order of your mods, as for each of them you seem to give slightly different orders in readmes or threads. The best I could come up with for a slightly complex order was this:

0) Thief, bard and arcane spellcaster kits first (RR, S&S, mage kits, etc)
1) Tome and Blood
2) Random Tweaks
3) Most other independent kits (so that they're affected by Feats/Wild Talent/Spheres etc)
4) MnG - Anything that doesn't need the Feat System to be installed
5) Divine Remix except sphere
6) Faith and Powers - the core components
7) Will to Power - Needs to be installed before M&G's Feats
Eight) Might & Guile's Feats
9) Any vanilla class/kit overhaul mods one would want over yours for x reason
10) FnP Multiclass
11) 5E Casting

Sounds right?

[Endarire]

I recall there being a Paladin/Sorcerer multiclass with your kits.  Is that true?  If so, what mods are needed to make that work?

Thankee!

[subtledoctor]

No mods will ever make a sorcadin work. It is firmly locked away in the ethereal realm of 5th Edition cheesemongering. (See also: “coffeelock.”) It has no place in Bsldur’s Gate. 

[GawainBS]

Just curious. What would make it so cheesy in BG/IWD?

[Endarire]

And I recall seeing Paladin/Mage in one of your mods.  Add 5e Casting to mimic Soradin!

[subtledoctor]

On 11/22/2022 at 11:59 PM, GawainBS said:

Just curious. What would make it so cheesy in BG/IWD?

It's not a question of whether it would be cheesy - if you look at my mods, you can see that if it was remotely possible to make a paladin/sorcerer multiclass, I would have done it already, cheese be damned. But it's just not remotely possible.

There's nothing inherently cheesy about a paladin/mage multiclass in 2E. From reading about 5E around the web, I gather that the "sorcadin" is specifically cheesy in the 5E system, because 5E paladins' Smite ability is fueled by spell slots and sorcerers get a metric ton of spell slots. That rule doesn't exist in 2E so the combination wouldn't be cheesy in 2E.

22 hours ago, Endarire said:

I recall seeing Paladin/Mage in one of your mods

Nope, I never made that. It can't be done. Can't even be simulated in any kind of satisfying way. I mean you could make a fighter/mage - and by extension, with TnB, a fighter/sorcerer - and give some stuff like Lay on Hands and Detect Evil to the fighter side? But, that would be pretty lame. It wouldn't feel like a real paladin multiclass. If going that route it would be better to let the kit be its own thing. Call it some kind of magical knight... a Knight that is Eldritch... and give it alignment restrictions and some code of honor fluff and some special abilities relating to its code of honor, which are also a bit more integrated with its sorcerer side. But, that wouldn't be a paladin.

[Guest ManoloxD]

Hello subtledoctor, the zealots classes, like the cherub of the ruby rose and the child of blood, have theirs proficient weapons equal to the vanilla priest, although in the char creation you can select the weapons proficiences like a fighte and when you start a game with theses classes, the weapon groups get blocked, like a priest.