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Unearthed Arcana present Tome & Blood: more options for arcane casters


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13 hours ago, Endarire said:

Revised Specialists has an option to remove opposition schools for Wizards.

Really? You're not talking about Component 12: Rebalanced Specialist Opposition Schools? 'Cause like I said, even if I choose not to install any of those, I get opposition schools removed in my EET game, though it should default to regular BG2 ones.

Which led me to thinking that either component 11: Rebalanced Spell Schools, or component 40: Revised Specialists, actually gets rid of opposition schools without it being documented.

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On 10/24/2022 at 4:45 AM, Quester said:

Really? You're not talking about Component 12: Rebalanced Specialist Opposition Schools?

Revised Specialists used to included no opposition schools by default, but then I separated out the opp schools bit to be an independent component with multiple options.

Unfortunately, after checking through the code, it looks like I did not fully disable it in Revised Specialists. So that is the culprit here. I'll fix it.

If you want to fix this locally, you can open tomeandblood/components/setup-specialists.tpa, and delete the block of code between line 309 and line 323.

EDIT - fixed in version 0.9.41.

Edited by subtledoctor
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I was looking into the Metamagic component again (options 1 and 2). Just a few things I wanted to note. Not urgent or anything. Just possible things to consider. This was tested with v0.9.40.

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Discrepancy in when Mages/Sorcerers gain some abilities and when they gain access to the spell level for the ability.

First number is the level when abilities are gained. 
In parenthesis is the level that the spell level is gained (unmodded).

Mage:
minor             - 7 (7)
contingency  - 10 (12)
sequencer     - 13 (14)
trigger            - 16 (16)

Sorcerer:
minor             - 8  (8)
contingency  - 11 (12)
sequencer     - 14 (14)
trigger            - 17 (16)

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Multiclass mages can select Chain Contingency as an HLA, even if level 9 mage spells aren't available. Wasn't sure whether this was intentional, but if not, the fix is pretty simple. For the multiclass LU***.2DA files, the min_lev column for GA_SPWI908 needs to be set to 32.

min_lev set to 32:
LUCM0.2DA
LUFM0.2DA
LUMT0.2DA

triple class (set to 16 or 32?):
LUFMC.2DA
LUFMT.2DA

EDIT: Just remembered that triple classes don't normally get level 9 spells anyways. Right now Chain Contingency is selectable for triple classes as soon as HLAs are available (even before cleric spells). If min_lev is set to 16, it's gained at the same time as cleric spells for Fighter/Mage/Cleric (cleric level 14). If set to 32, it's gained at 9 million xp (when level 9 spells are available if the xp cap is removed).

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A couple IWDEE things. I don't know if you're officially supporting IWDEE, but I'll mention these for reference, so anyone reading this can know:

  • Bard: Gains level 7 spells at level 21 and one level 8 spell slot at level 29. They currently don't gain innate sequencers/triggers, jsut the minor sequencer and Contingency.
  • Options 1 and 2: Chain Contingency is unavailable for any class, no scrolls and not given automatically (game doesn't have HLAs).

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Also, for some reason, when characters are auto-leveled, the regular Contingency isn't given if they level to or past the level where the ability is gained. By auto-leveled, I'm talking about starting a new game in the expansions, ToB or HoW. The sequencers are gained. Just the Contingency ability isn't.

Edited by Dan_P
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22 hours ago, Dan_P said:

Multiclass mages can select Chain Contingency as an HLA, even if level 9 mage spells aren't available.

But, this is when Contingencies are set as an innate ability, no? So access to level 9 spells should be immaterial - in this instance Chain Contingency is not a 9th-level spell, it is a high-level ability, and should be obtained whenever you get access  to high-level abilities.

Right? Or am I misunderstanding the report?

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1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

But, this is when Contingencies are set as an innate ability, no? So access to level 9 spells should be immaterial - in this instance Chain Contingency is not a 9th-level spell, it is a high-level ability, and should be obtained whenever you get access  to high-level abilities.

Right? Or am I misunderstanding the report?

No, that's true. That's why I said I wasn't sure if it was intentional. I brought it up in case you still considered it equivalent to a 9th level spell balance-wise, and thus selectable only with 9th levels spells. I don't have a particular preference.

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@subtledoctor, I thought I'd mention this in here. I made an IWDEE compatibility fixer mod, which I just posted about in the General forum. It addresses the IWDEE stuff mentioned in my above post on Innate Metamagic. It's also installable for the BGEE games, but only fixes the level discrepancies. I wrote it in a way that it should hopefully be future-proofed if you update this mod in the future to include similar changes. Of course, if necessary, I can adjust or remove that component if any issues come up with a later version.

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On 11/8/2022 at 4:35 PM, Dan_P said:

Discrepancy in when Mages/Sorcerers gain some abilities and when they gain access to the spell level for the ability.

 

First number is the level when abilities are gained. 
In parenthesis is the level that the spell level is gained (unmodded).

Mage:
minor             - 7 (7)
contingency  - 10 (12)
sequencer     - 13 (14)
trigger            - 16 (16)

Sorcerer:
minor             - 8  (8)
contingency  - 11 (12)
sequencer     - 14 (14)
trigger            - 17 (16)

That is all intentional. i don't particularly care when you get access to the spell, I think 7/10/13/16 is a nice cadence for getting strong innate abilities. 7/12/14/16 just seems weird to me.

On 11/8/2022 at 4:35 PM, Dan_P said:

A couple IWDEE things. I don't know if you're officially supporting IWDEE, but I'll mention these for reference, so anyone reading this can know:

  • Bard: Gains level 7 spells at level 21 and one level 8 spell slot at level 29. They currently don't gain innate sequencers/triggers, jsut the minor sequencer and Contingency.
  • Options 1 and 2: Chain Contingency is unavailable for any class, no scrolls and not given automatically (game doesn't have HLAs).

Good call on Chain Contingency - and its handling in IWDEE is fixed in v0.9.42. It still limits bards to the low-level metamagic innates in that game - they are still bards, after all.

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Thanks for the update. I was looking too quick before and didn't even notice you already added Chain Contingency in v0.9.42. At least I confirmed that the iwd_compat mod is already compatible with the update, and also backwards compatible with previous versions of this mod.

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I was getting the issue where sorcerers, with the spell switching component installed, never got the option to select spells. I read back and found a few other posts about that issue, but it seemed to have been fixed in an earlier version (I'm on 9.42, current at time of writing). I had not installed the multi-class sorcerer component, but seeing older posts about how those worked when sorcerer kits didn't gave me an idea, despite the fact that I'm not multi-classing, installing that component fixed my issue and allowed my kit sorcerer (Favored Soul, in case that's relevant) to select spells.

It might be worth specifying that this option requires installing that component, or possibly implementing it in some way where it doesn't depend on that component. I played around a bit in the console before trying this, and I think it might be that the item doesn't exist unless multi-class sorcys are installed, but I'm not positive. I'm playing on EET, in case that's relevant.

Hope this is helpful, thanks for the great mod!

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Not sure if reported, but using latest version Mana Sorcerer isn't showing up as an option in character creation. No other mods installed.

Spoiler

// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
~TOMEANDBLOOD/TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #11 // Rebalanced Spell Schools: 0.9.43
~TOMEANDBLOOD/TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #1201 // Rebalanced Arcane Opposition Schools -> No Opposition Schools: 0.9.43
~TOMEANDBLOOD/TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #31 // Sorcerer: Favored Soul: 0.9.43
~TOMEANDBLOOD/TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #40 // Revised Specialists: 0.9.43
~TOMEANDBLOOD/TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #51 // Revised Metamagic -> Innate metamagic, learned automatically by everyone: 0.9.43
~TOMEANDBLOOD/TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #63 // Cantrips -> Cantrip Wands: 0.9.43
~TOMEANDBLOOD/TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #67 // Choose-Your-Own Familiar: 0.9.43
~TOMEANDBLOOD/TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #68 // Pooky's Mod: Imbue Familiars: 0.9.43
~TOMEANDBLOOD/TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #71 // Sorcerer Spell Switching -> Change spells every level: 0.9.43
~TOMEANDBLOOD/TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #80 // Multiclass Sorcerers: 0.9.43
~TOMEANDBLOOD/TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #82 // Mage Kit: Arcanist (Do not install if you plan to use 5E spellcasting for everyone): 0.9.43
~TOMEANDBLOOD/TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #85 // Sorcerer Kit: Mana Sorcerer: 0.9.43
~TOMEANDBLOOD/TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #92 // Make +Spell Slot Items work with MultiSorcerers/Arcanists -> Bonuses for both memorization and casting slots: 0.9.43
 

 

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On 11/22/2022 at 7:40 PM, southfla79 said:

Not sure if reported, but using latest version Mana Sorcerer isn't showing up as an option in character creation.

You play a regular sorcerer, and then in-game you have an innate ability that lets you choose which method to use, spell slots or spell points.

On 11/20/2022 at 3:34 PM, Guest Stephi said:

I was getting the issue where sorcerers, with the spell switching component installed, never got the option to select spells. I read back and found a few other posts about that issue, but it seemed to have been fixed in an earlier version (I'm on 9.42, current at time of writing). I had not installed the multi-class sorcerer component, but seeing older posts about how those worked when sorcerer kits didn't gave me an idea, despite the fact that I'm not multi-classing, installing that component fixed my issue and allowed my kit sorcerer (Favored Soul, in case that's relevant) to select spells.

It might be worth specifying that this option requires installing that component, or possibly implementing it in some way where it doesn't depend on that component. I played around a bit in the console before trying this, and I think it might be that the item doesn't exist unless multi-class sorcys are installed, but I'm not positive

I can't reproduce this. I just installed these components:

tnb_install.jpg.8b25520f941c7ae74cbd76de57c1f743.jpg

...and I made a Favored Soul, and I could choose spells just fine.

You are using the item ability, right? With spell switching installed, you don't select spells at level-up, instead you use the 'backpack' icon and there is a spell selection ability. It lets you choose one spell with each use, and you can use it as often as needed until you have all the spells for your level. Every time you level up you can use it more and it will let you select more spells.

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