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Mike1072

SR V4 Beta 18

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This release deals with spell icons and spell icons only.

All of the icons included in the mod have been assessed and updated where needed to match the 1PP/EE style, thanks to bob_veng.

Several icons have been redesigned or recoloured by bob_veng:

  • Magic Fang
  • Gust of Wind
  • Enchanted Weapon
  • Animal Growth

In addition, a number of new icons have been added by bob_veng and DreamSlaveOne:

  • Regenerate Light Wounds
  • Regenerate Moderate Wounds
  • Regenerate Serious Wounds
  • Regenerate Critical Wounds
  • Mass Regenerate
  • Regeneration
  • Strength of Stone
  • Dimension Jump
  • True Strike
  • Protection from Elemental Energy
  • Banishment
  • Greater Spell Deflection

You can preview these icons in the online documentation on the spell lists and spell pages, but the best viewing experience is in-game.

I can't express how much it means to have such wonderful art in the mod. Thank you to @bob_veng, @DreamSlaveOne, @Pacek, @scorpio, @yarpen, and everyone else who has contributed over the years.

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Hello,

Thanks again for the descriptions.

I have read many of the (arcane) spell descriptions and here are a few comments / remarks / feedback (while I haven’t had time to install the mod nor try anything yet ^^).
These remarks are made from the POV of a sorcerer trying to pick spells, and most of them are just minor remarks about typos in the descriptions, minor inconsistencies, or imprecisions.

  1. Spell deflection variants : All descriptions of the Spell Deflection variants say that AOE spells or stationary area effect spells are not absorbed, is this true ? If I remember correctly (from a playthrough with what I think was beta 16), those kind of spells protect against AOE and AOE-DOT effects as well (which is a very good thing and makes these spells a worthy pick), but the description is not up to date.
  2. Dispelling Screen : feels under powered to me for a 5th level spell. It only protects from two spells, L5 Breach and L3 Dispel Magic (but not L8 Pierce Shield for example, which also removes combat protections). If you compare that to Spell Shield (same level, similar function to cancel one spell then vanish), which stops up to L9 Spellstrike. Plus there already are many unique / « almost-mandatory » (situational) spell picks at L5 (Breach, Spell Shield, Dispelling Screen and Lower Resistance come to mind). So maybe a possibility could be to move Dispelling Screen to L4 instead of L5, where there are less such spells ? And/or make it protect at least from the combat-protections dispelling effect of Pierce Shield, but not from its spell-protections dispelling effect ?
  3. Lightning Bolt : I feel this spell is slightly under powered compared to competitors like Skull Trap and Fireball, which deal the same amount of damage but over a large area instead of a single target (even with the difference in save throws), although I understand that the rebound of the bolt was overpowering this spell for humans, and making it dangerous for the AI at the same time. Yet, isn’t there a way to create a small AOE in the line between caster and target ? Ie. throw the bolt like vanilla Lightning Bolt did, but instead of "traversing" the target and continuing its course, make the bolt stop at the target and disappear there ? That would avoid the rebound problem, while still giving the spell a (small) AOE that would make it much more useful. And maybe with a casting time of 1 so that you have a real high chance to hit the creatures you really target before they have the time to move ? I don’t know if it’s technically doable, though. 😕
  4. Prismatic spray : The description says « Any creature that is caught within the area of effect will be touched by one or more rays », but does not say what is the probability of being touched by more than one ray, which I feel is relatively important to estimate its effectiveness when picking spells (for example, « Any creature will be touched by one of the seven rays randomly chosen, and there is a 20 % base chance + 2 % per level of the caster chance (up to 60 % chance total at level 20) that it is touched by a second one, randomly picked between the six rays remaining. »). Same remark for Chromatic Orb, where the rules for randomness could be explained.
  5. Prismatic Mantle : The description says that any attacker in the radius will be subject to « a random prismatic effect », I guess it means the same effects as L7 Prismatic Spray spell, with the same -4 penalty to save throws ? Does the spell block insects as well like the other « shield » spells ?
  6. Conjure Elemental variants : having three different spells to summon Air / Earth / Fire elementals always struck me as strange, so I thought maybe this is the kind of spells that *could* be assembled in one, and you chose whichever you want to summon when you cast it ? This would make the spell slightly more versatile. Same remark for Dijnni / Efreeti, which are relatively similar in nature.
  7. Banishment : Which « summoned » creatures are immune to Banishment ? Instinctively, it feels to me like the skeletons should be immune for example (as they are « animated » and not summoned), but I suspect they are not. Genies are immune, but it is the only creature for which it is explicitly stated in their spell description (though I suspect gated demons as well as planetars are immune as well ?). What about Simulacrum or Project Image, I suspect they are immune too ? Maybe adding just a few examples of what is and is not immune in the description of the Banishment spell could help ?
  8. Mislead : there is a contradiction in the description about the duration. The spell characteristics say « Duration : 1 round/level », but the text says « The illusory double vanishes after 6 rounds »
  9. Simulacrum : What is the real level of the clone summoned ? Since increase in the power of spells is usually caped at level 20, what happens when simulacrum is cast by a 30th level sorcerer or wizard, for example ? Is the level of the caster taken into account still 20, so the simulacrum would be level 12 ? Or does it summon a 60 % of 30 = 18th-level clone ? Maybe adding an explicit « up to a maximum of a 12th level clone for a 20th level caster » could be nice ?
  10. Find Familiar : the current variant, where the familiar stays relatively weak, and you lose one constitution point permanently if it dies, discourages using the familiar for almost anything but its HPs bonus, and encourages keeping it in your bag at all times. I don’t know if you know about the WTP familiar mod (WTP Familiars subject), but I find the idea very cool. Maybe SR could implement something similar to make familiars more useful ?
  11. Oracle vs True Seeing : if I understand it correctly, Oracle dispels all illusion spells, including Project Image and Mislead (but not Simulacrum), while True Seeing does not dispel them, but only « clearly highlights them, revealing them as deceptions ». I am not sure I truly understand what it means. I suppose that for Mislead it simply shows where the real caster is, so that you can target and attack him or her directly, but without dispelling the clone. Am I correct ? In that case, then the Oracle spell still has advantages over True Seeing (which is not a bad thing since they have just 1 spell level of difference, and True Seeing still offers many advantages).

Other than those few things, I think everything I saw was solid. 🙂

Sorry about the long post. ^^;

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6 hours ago, ThreeQuarters said:

Hello,

Thanks again for the descriptions.

I have read many of the (arcane) spell descriptions and here are a few comments / remarks / feedback (while I haven’t had time to install the mod nor try anything yet ^^).
These remarks are made from the POV of a sorcerer trying to pick spells, and most of them are just minor remarks about typos in the descriptions, minor inconsistencies, or imprecisions.

Other than those few things, I think everything I saw was solid. 🙂

Sorry about the long post. ^^;

Thanks for the feedback.  I've moved your post here so it won't get lost.  I don't have the answers to your questions but maybe someone else can jump in.

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Deflection only blocks AoE if you install that component.

Doesn't Dispelling Screen have an AoE?  Protecting the whole party from a Dispel or Breach seems like a pretty big deal to me...

Lightning Bolt: maybe it could work as a more-damaging, electric version of Agannazar's Scorcher?

Find Familiar: I don't think anyone is working on new spells for SR anymore, but you might be interested in revised FF spell that I just made...

True Sight doesn't dispel illusions, it just lets the caster see through them.  It is more useful against invisibility.  Oracle is a one-shot 'blast illusions away' thing.  They have more distinct usage now than in vanilla, which I like.  (And Tome & Blood has a component which expands on SR's changes, and which works very well with SR.)

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7 hours ago, Mike1072 said:

Thanks for the feedback.  I've moved your post here so it won't get lost.  I don't have the answers to your questions but maybe someone else can jump in.

Whoops. Yes, I guess it will fit here better.

 

2 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Deflection only blocks AoE if you install that component.

Doesn't Dispelling Screen have an AoE?  Protecting the whole party from a Dispel or Breach seems like a pretty big deal to me...

Lightning Bolt: maybe it could work as a more-damaging, electric version of Agannazar's Scorcher?

Find Familiar: I don't think anyone is working on new spells for SR anymore, but you might be interested in revised FF spell that I just made...

True Sight doesn't dispel illusions, it just lets the caster see through them.  It is more useful against invisibility.  Oracle is a one-shot 'blast illusions away' thing.  They have more distinct usage now than in vanilla, which I like.  (And Tome & Blood has a component which expands on SR's changes, and which works very well with SR.)

Thank you for your answer.

I completely forgot about the fact that deflection did not block AOE spells by default. I guess this component effectively makes these spells much more versatile than they are supposed to be without it.

For Dispelling Screen, it is true that protecting the whole party instead of just the spellcaster like Spell Shield does makes a big difference, and is reasonable in terms of balance… I did not consider that aspect and I guess it is reasonable for a L5 spell. It does not make my spell picks for this level easier though, haha. ^^;

For Lightning Bolt, I don’t know if it is possible to use the same mechanic as Agannazar’s Scorcher, but that could be a way to achieve what I described. Maybe with a shorter duration though, like one single round ? Or even "instant" duration to simulate the bolt going from caster to target ? In any case that would be a nice improvement from the single target version.
I wonder if it could be possible to do something similar for Chain Lightning btw ? Ie. Chain Lightning would become the addition of a 10d6 lightning bolt that hits every creature between caster and target (included), plus an AOE electric deflagration in a 30' radius around the target, which only hits enemies for 1d6 per two levels of the caster. The total would still be 20d6 for the primary target, and every enemy between caster and target.

I am gonna look into your mod Tome & Blood, it seems there are some interesting things in there as well. Thank you for the pointer.

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Unsure if this has already been included, but should a web burn away if touched by a fire elemental or by someone affected by fire shield?  If not, should these creatures be immune?

Also, may we have an option to view all spells of a level in a list so we needn't click each spell individually?  What about showing the revised and original versions of a spell side-by-side or one on top of the other to help readers understand what's changed from vanilla?  Alternatively, giving a note per spell about what's changed since vanilla also works.  (After writing this I noticed all spells include links at the bottom to their vanilla/revised versions.  Neat!)

Do spells that scale based on caster level like dispel magic scale into epic levels (21+)?  I was disappointed when my previous run's dispel wasn't the auto-win I expected at CL40ish.

Does free action/freedom of movement negate haste?

What are the descriptions of the fixes mentioned in the EET installer (Dispel Magic Fix, Mirror Image Fix)?

Do items that produce spell affects revised by this mod (like a Ring of Free Action) also produce the revised spell effects?

Why does protection from normal weapons have a 5 casting time but protection from magical weapons has a 1 casting time?

Improved haste shouldn't mention that it affects an area as an advantage over haste when haste also affects an area.

Wraithform:  Disabling all casting seems harsh.  It may be worth using otherwise.

Gracias!

Edited by Endarire

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Guest Big Fan of SR, IR, and SCS

Hi Mike, thank you for taking up the work on SR.

I'm a huge fan of SR+IR+SCS and I mod quite a few spells to suit my tastes and fix (what I consider to be) errors. I could write an essay on how insightful and superior the SR spell list is from my perspective.

Question: I've been playing with SCS v32.7 and SR v4beta16 since when DavidW explicitly made them compatible. Do you know if SCS is compatible with v4 beta 17?

Just checking before I consider switching over to v17.  I understand the issues surrounding v17's "filenames assigned dynamically at install-time ", and while SCS may handle that perfectly through IDS aliases, my own personal mods probably won't.

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1 hour ago, Guest Big Fan of SR, IR, and SCS said:

Just checking before I consider switching over to v17.  I understand the issues surrounding v17's "filenames assigned dynamically at install-time ", and while SCS may handle that perfectly through IDS aliases, my own personal mods probably won't.

I don't know for sure if SCS is compatible... but I assume it is - it handled SR by assigning IDS names to SR spells, and then targeting those IDS entries for patching, rather than targeting the old SR resrefs directly.  Now that SR supplies its own IDS entries for its spells, SCS should (mostly, probably) continue to work fine.

I had to change a bunch of my own mods for renewed SR compatibility... it ended up not being too bad.  Say I used to do something involving Animal Summoning 1, which was added/overwritten as SPPR120.  No we can't be sure what spell number it will have, so where my mod used to do:

ACTION_IF FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME ~sppr120~ BEGIN
  COPY_EXISTING ~sppr120.spl~ ~override~
    [patch stuff]
  BUT_ONLY
END

 

...now I look up that spell's IDS name here, and then use something like this:

ACTION_IF (FILE_CONTAINS_EVALUATED (~spell.ids~ ~[ %TAB%]CLERIC_ANIMAL_SUMMONING_LEVEL_1[ %TAB%%LNL%%MNL%%WNL%]~)) BEGIN
  LAF RES_NUM_OF_SPELL_NAME STR_VAR spell_name = ~CLERIC_ANIMAL_SUMMONING_LEVEL_1~ RET spell_res END
  COPY_EXISTING ~%spell_res%.spl~ ~override~
    [patch stuff]
  BUT_ONLY
END

 

A bit longer, but you can cut and paste the code and plug in whatever spell you need, so it's not that onerous overall.

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Dispel Magic: The doc description mentions "Remove Magic" which no longer exists in the docs.

Magic Resistance: It seemingly uses the same icon as Dispelling Screen.  May we get a version of one of these icons which faces right instead of left?

Edited by Endarire

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2 hours ago, Endarire said:

Dispel Magic: The doc description mentions "Remove Magic" which no longer exists in the docs.

On 12/6/2019 at 9:40 PM, Endarire said:

Improved haste shouldn't mention that it affects an area as an advantage over haste when haste also affects an area.

Fixed for the next version.

2 hours ago, Endarire said:

Magic Resistance: It seemingly uses the same icon as Dispelling Screen.  May we get a version of one of these icons which faces right instead of left?

The icons are similar but not identical.  I'm not sure how I'd feel about making a minor change like a flip, since both icons are from the vanilla game and the issue hasn't come up before.  Dispelling Screen uses the icon for Spell Immunity, the spell it replaces.  If we were to make a change, I'd prefer a redesign that makes one of the icons more distinctive.

On 12/6/2019 at 9:40 PM, Endarire said:

Do spells that scale based on caster level like dispel magic scale into epic levels (21+)?  I was disappointed when my previous run's dispel wasn't the auto-win I expected at CL40ish.

The per-level improvements of spells (e.g. increased duration) are capped at level 20, like in vanilla.

Dispel Magic's effectiveness depends on both your caster level and the enemy's caster level.  I don't think it has a cap.

However, you'll be as successful dispelling 10th-level magic when you are level 10 as you will be dispelling 25th-level magic when you are level 25.

On 12/6/2019 at 9:40 PM, Endarire said:

Does free action/freedom of movement negate haste?

No, it does not.

On 12/6/2019 at 9:40 PM, Endarire said:

What are the descriptions of the fixes mentioned in the EET installer (Dispel Magic Fix, Mirror Image Fix)?

Mirror Image Fix: This component fixes mirror images so they no longer protect from AoE spells such as Fireball.

Dispel Magic Fix: This component prevents innate weapons (like claws provided by Polymorph and Shapeshift spells) from being dispelled by Dispel Magic.

I believe both of these bugs were fixed in the EE games, but if you're installing SR's main component, you'll need to install these components to affect the resources added by SR.

I'll probably move the fixes into the main component in the future.

On 12/6/2019 at 9:40 PM, Endarire said:

Do items that produce spell affects revised by this mod (like a Ring of Free Action) also produce the revised spell effects?

Spell Revisions does not change items.  If an item has on-equip effects or activated abilities that do not match specific spells, there will be no change in how they function.  However, if an item has an activated ability to cast a particular spell, then that spell will most likely be the SR version.

If you install the main component of Item Revisions, it will update the item effects in a manner consistent with SR.  The mods were designed to be used in tandem.

On 12/8/2019 at 4:31 AM, Guest Big Fan of SR, IR, and SCS said:

Hi Mike, thank you for taking up the work on SR.

I'm a huge fan of SR+IR+SCS and I mod quite a few spells to suit my tastes and fix (what I consider to be) errors. I could write an essay on how insightful and superior the SR spell list is from my perspective.

Question: I've been playing with SCS v32.7 and SR v4beta16 since when DavidW explicitly made them compatible. Do you know if SCS is compatible with v4 beta 17?

Just checking before I consider switching over to v17.  I understand the issues surrounding v17's "filenames assigned dynamically at install-time ", and while SCS may handle that perfectly through IDS aliases, my own personal mods probably won't.

Thanks for the nice words about the mod.  All praise should go to @Demivrgvs and the other contributors.

Regarding SCS, I expect it will require an update to achieve compatibility with SRv4b17+.  I believe @DavidW is aware of what may need to be changed as we discussed the SR changes here.

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Why do some spell icons like obscuring mist have a green border when being chosen by a Sor?

I also didn't see mage armor as learnable by our L1 Sor/Druid (Faiths & Powers/Tome & Blood).  Other spells were available though.

Edited by Endarire

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Not sure if this is the right place to say this but the Wizard spell Protection from Elemental Energy doesnt do anything. Its extended effects and resource is pointing to SPWI422 whereas I suspect it should be pointing to DVWI426. I made the change using DLTCEP and it caused it to work correctly.

Im using the beta18 though I have SCS 32.7 installed too which Im aware may not be fully compatible yet..

I can provide the Weidu log if needs be?

Thanks

Edited by Jon Tanah

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14 hours ago, Jon Tanah said:

Not sure if this is the right place to say this but the Wizard spell Protection from Elemental Energy doesnt do anything. Its extended effects and resource is pointing to SPWI422 whereas I suspect it should be pointing to DVWI426. I made the change using DLTCEP and it caused it to work correctly.

Im using the beta18 though I have SCS 32.7 installed too which Im aware may not be fully compatible yet..

Thanks for the report.  This was a bug in SR that will be corrected in v4b19.

Edit: The bug also affects Animal Growth.

Edited by Mike1072

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For some reason the icons for Scrolls of Obscuring Mist and Monster Summoning I were pointing to invalid files and missing. I fixed it with NearInfinity on my game and it works now. This is on a EET install with SCS, IR and SR. You can quickly check thalantyr's shop and see if the scrolls are there with the correct icons.

I also noticed that the Obscuring Mist icon in the spell selection during character creation had a green square border around it. Seems like a bug.

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I believe I read somewhere that the green border is from a layer of the icon that was set to be transparent. The engine in some circumstances displays 0x00000000 as green for a border. Changing it to very nearly transparent (0x00000001 or whatever) fixes it. @bob_veng

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