SR V4 Beta 18

[Bartimaeus]

34 minutes ago, grodrigues said:

My own opinion is that Imprisonment should simply be excised from the spellbooks. It is the ultimate eff you spell if used against the player and a rather cheap way to get rid of a powerful enemy, assuming it is not immune to it. As Bartimeus pointed out, there is really no good way to balance this mess.

In SRR, I added an option that gives a -6 saving throw penalty to resist it, so at the very least it IS resistable although you're not very likely to do so (though a little more if you have a bunch of saving throws+ items/spells on). It really is a dumb...but unfortunately iconic spell.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Guest ColdFiltered]

On 5/28/2021 at 4:35 AM, Bartimaeus said:

I played around with a number of things for SRR, but I was never able to figure out a proper solution for Imprisonment's mechanics. Restoring the original behavior breaks character dialogues if cast on party members OR ends the game instantly if cast on the PC - that really sucks. Permanent maze makes it so that you can't leave the area or even rest (I think?) without kicking the character out of your party - also not acceptable. Simply killing the character instead sort of solves the biggest issues, but it feels so crappy and doesn't allow you to counter it in a sensible way. What's the solution? ...I don't know.

Could just make it a maze effect only that is very long (like 12 hours in game?).  You can use a scroll of freedom, or rest and memorize one.  If you forgot to bring a scroll and don't have lvl 9 spells yet you can just wait it out so your game isn't broken.  That's obviously exploitable, but better than a death with no possible recourse. 

[Lianos]

On 5/28/2021 at 10:35 AM, Bartimaeus said:

I played around with a number of things for SRR, but I was never able to figure out a proper solution for Imprisonment's mechanics. Restoring the original behavior breaks character dialogues if cast on party members OR ends the game instantly if cast on the PC - that really sucks. Permanent maze makes it so that you can't leave the area or even rest (I think?) without kicking the character out of your party - also not acceptable. Simply killing the character instead sort of solves the biggest issues, but it feels so crappy and doesn't allow you to counter it in a sensible way. What's the solution? ...I don't know.

My understanding of the current implementation: The spell Imprisonment starts a timer. When the timer reaches a threshold, the affected character dies.

The spell Freedom should stop this timer (in addition to freeing the victim from the maze).

[Bartimaeus]

2 hours ago, Lianos said:

My understanding of the current implementation: The spell Imprisonment starts a timer. When the timer reaches a threshold, the affected character dies.

The spell Freedom should stop this timer (in addition to freeing the victim from the maze).

SRR's Freedom already does - I don't know about SR's.

[polytope]

I installed the version 18 Beta yesterday to check compatibility with my own mod, I noticed a couple of things:

Protection from Elemental Energy (Spwi422) the 2da it depends on is not copied to override folder, on the original BG2-ToB engine anyway, perhaps EE installs do things differently.

In the new "Chaos" (Spwi711 and Sppr709) the berserk effect - opcode 3 - does not affect creatures outside the party, you need to use opcode 247 for that, opcode 3 is also inconsistent regarding the controllability of those who are berserk, i.e. there's a good chance that you actually can micro them rather than watching them attack randomly and the saving throw is made with a -6 penalty, not -4 as in the description.

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, polytope said:

I installed the version 18 Beta yesterday to check compatibility with my own mod, I noticed a couple of things:

Protection from Elemental Energy (Spwi422) the 2da it depends on is not copied to override folder, on the original BG2-ToB engine anyway, perhaps EE installs do things differently.

In the new "Chaos" (Spwi711 and Sppr709) the berserk effect - opcode 3 - does not affect creatures outside the party, you need to use opcode 247 for that, opcode 3 is also inconsistent regarding the controllability of those who are berserk, i.e. there's a good chance that you actually can micro them rather than watching them attack randomly and the saving throw is made with a -6 penalty, not -4 as in the description.

Didn't realize that bug with Protection from Elemental Energy was still around, thought that got fixed with the last hotfix. Must not be a spell that's used very often by players even though it's so much more convenient than the old individualized spells, I guess.

Chaos: Are you a hundred percent sure about it not working outside of the party?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/zcpczrgqs507aky/SWYUYbctvh.mp4

No opcode 3: Phlydia just keeps casting her spells. Opcode 3: Phlydia (and the tutor...) bum-rushes me instead, although when she gets a chance to cast a spell, she doesn't interrupt her own spellcasting even if she goes berserk in the middle of it. ...Amazingly, even with the -4 saving throw (SRR), Phlydia somehow resists it several times here.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[subtledoctor]

The IESDP suggests that opcode 3 only affects party members in the pre-EE engine. But, the IESDP is not the most accurate thing ever written...

At any rate, I can think of a reason to stick with opcode 3 (if it works, of course): it is removable by opcode 4. Opcode 247 is not. There might be spells (Exaltation, Chaotic Commands) that rely on that. 

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

The IESDP suggests that opcode 3 only affects party members in the pre-EE engine. But, the IESDP is not the most accurate thing ever written...

At any rate, I can think of a reason to stick with opcode 3 (if it works, of course): it is removable by opcode 4. Opcode 247 is not. There might be spells (Exaltation, Chaotic Commands) that rely on that. 

Nope, it's right, that opcode don't do squat against enemies in a ToBEx game. No yellow circle, no bum-rushing. How annoying!

[grodrigues]

10 hours ago, polytope said:

Protection from Elemental Energy (Spwi422) the 2da it depends on is not copied to override folder, on the original BG2-ToB engine anyway, perhaps EE installs do things differently.

Fixed in master already. The original spell (borne spwi426 not spwi422 -- it is added via ADD_SPELL) had the wrong table reference. The right table is also copied in tha main component (I just checked).

10 hours ago, polytope said:

In the new "Chaos" (Spwi711 and Sppr709) the berserk effect - opcode 3 - does not affect creatures outside the party, you need to use opcode 247 for that, opcode 3 is also inconsistent regarding the controllability of those who are berserk, i.e. there's a good chance that you actually can micro them rather than watching them attack randomly and the saving throw is made with a -6 penalty, not -4 as in the description.

The saves are fixed in master. The difference in opcodes 3 vs. 247 was not something I was aware; the IESDP says: "Note: At least in EEs, the only difference between opcodes #3 and #247, is that opcode #247 will not force the creature(s) to use melee weapons, and is not removed by opcode #4 (Cure Berserk)." so at least in the EEs the opcodes *seems* to work? It also seems to say that this beserker, call it berserk_2, is not cured by cure berserk. So if a change 3 -> 247 one also has to go through all the curing spells and immunities against berserk to patch in the right protections / immunities.

[Bartimaeus]

One could replace the berserk effect entirely with feebledmindedness, blindness, or stun. I'm unsure which I prefer, though I'd probably favor stun the least given that hold is already a possible effect and that's too similar.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[subtledoctor]

Preferring more diverse effects (and Berserk is already kind of similar to Panic), I would vote for Blindness. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by subtledoctor

[Bartimaeus]

2 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Preferring more diverse effects (and Berserk is already kind of similar to Panic), I would vote for Blindness. 

I'm not sure what I prefer - I kind of like the idea of including feeblemindedness in a smaller way like this, since it's kind of an under-utilized effect as it stands, whereas blindness is already used for...uh, let's see here...Chromatic Orb, Color Spray, Prismatic Spray, Unholy Smite, Sunscorch, False Dawn, Sunray, and Holy Word. Okay, wow, that was a lot more than I expected. Huh. ...Why aren't I using feeblemindedness in Prismatic Spray? Hmm. That might be better than the silly maze effect...

Edited October 23, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[subtledoctor]

Well, Chaos seems to cause a range of mental effects, whereas Prismatic Spray causes more physical effects. If it was up to me I would accentuate that difference. Maybe:

- Chaos: sleep, feeblemind, panic, or confusion

- Prismatic Spray: fire, acid, electric, poison, maze, blind, or... dunno. Stun? seems mental, but what the hey. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by subtledoctor

[david76321]

Hi all!

Anyone else getting get a thing where, with the 4th level wizard spell 'Protection from the Elements', where when you cast it, the menu pops up to display which element to pick but the menu is blank?

Spoiler

Just seen this spell for the first time - this is a fresh install of 2.6.6 with SR V4 Beta 18  only.

(Expected is I suppose when you cast it either  'fire', 'cold', 'electricity, 'acid' are displayed on the menu bar as the description says)

WIll continue to search what it might be with Near Infinity!

Thanks!

EDIT: Just saw SRR, going to play around with that too, thank you!

EDIT2: Yep SRR fixes it, thank you!

Edited October 24, 2021 by david76321

[Bartimaeus]

2 hours ago, david76321 said:

Hi all!

Anyone else getting get a thing where, with the 4th level wizard spell 'Protection from the Elements', where when you cast it, the menu pops up to display which element to pick but the menu is blank?

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Just seen this spell for the first time - this is a fresh install of 2.6.6 with SR V4 Beta 18  only.

(Expected is I suppose when you cast it either  'fire', 'cold', 'electricity, 'acid' are displayed on the menu bar as the description says)

WIll continue to search what it might be with Near Infinity!

Thanks!

EDIT: Just saw SRR, going to play around with that too, thank you!

EDIT2: Yep SRR fixes it, thank you!

Yes, I genuinely thought the official version had already fixed it as well because I thought I reported it years back, but it sounds like grodigues has fixed it for the official version, with that new version of SR to be released in the near future, so there is that. Funny that it's come up twice here in such a short time after years of not being noticed/mentioned.

19 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Well, Chaos seems to cause a range of mental effects, whereas Prismatic Spray causes more physical effects. If it was up to me I would accentuate that difference. Maybe:

- Chaos: sleep, feeblemind, panic, or confusion

- Prismatic Spray: fire, acid, electric, poison, maze, blind, or... dunno. Stun? seems mental, but what the hey. 

Yeah, I think feeblemind probably fits in the best with the other Sphere of Chaos effects. I guess that'd be my pick, ultimately.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Bartimaeus