CPU Discussions (Split from SCS v32: installation times)

[Jarno Mikkola]

2 hours ago, Guest the_sextein said:

Just did a full install of SCS on BGEE and BG2EE via EET.  It took 42 minutes to do a full install on both games.  So about 21 minutes per a game.  I noticed it only uses one CPU core.  The average computer has at least quad core so it may speed things up substantially if it were possible to multi thread it.  I have 7 cores and 15 threads doing nothing the whole time.  Still, this is a nice improvement over the old install.  Good job on the improvements.

Unfortunately, the weidu process that's used to install mods to Infinity Engine games is a single thread process ... and will never be anything else. Unless you can make a program that open multiple files and edit them separately in an easy to understand language, go ahead and build better than weidu-weidu... to get more power out of it. As weidu can be viewed basically as DOS command line tool. Very simple. Relatively.

PS, the primary processor by the by, is ALWAYS the most able to calculate most data, it's why the primary world thread in games is known as such. It just needs higher frequencies. And 16 threads... if you don't do modern image/video editing, is completely unnecessary, at this point no game uses anywhere near that many. You would do better with just 4. You are better off making sure you are not bottle-necking the data flow with bad ideas, like having the game on a non-local hard drive. As today it fits onto your RAM. Even if you install the thousand mod components.

 

Late Edit:

GTA 5 being old game ? Hih... the BG2 is an old game... GTA 3 - 5 have a lot of 3D textures... BG2 has zero just like GTA2, not that you need to remember that, the BG2's 2D avatars have 6 sides, or was it 5 and a mirrored one. Not that it matters. But the sizes are a bit different, 100 - 1000 fold.

The 5Ghz is a max turbo speed, on a single core, that the weidu can utilize, if it's assigned correctly... but that's not always the case... cause Windows usually takes priority... apparently the OS is more important.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Jarno Mikkola

[Guest the_sextein]

That's too bad about weidu.  I use an I9 9900K a 5Ghz all core.  I do a lot of 3D rendering and some video editing that benefits from it.  Lots of newer games are starting to use 6 to 8 cores if you have them.  Hitman is loading up all 16 threads for example.  Even some older games like GTA 5 use 6 cores.   I think next year when the new PlayStation is released, 8 core gaming will become the norm since the PS5 uses an 8 core CPU.  I don't plan to upgrade for a long time though.  I figure the PS5 will control game CPU utilization for the next 5 years so with 8 cores and 16 threads I should be good to go.

With the new optimizations to SCS combined with 5ghz speeds, 42 minutes is what I am seeing for a full install on both games combined though.  Pretty happy with the results.

[Guest The_sextein]

Well, GTA 5 came out on consoles 7 years ago and it released on the PC 4 years ago.  I consider it old especially in terms of computer games.  The Baldur's Gate games are very old in comparison though so I see what you mean.  My CPU has a 5Ghz all core overclock so all 8 cores run at 5Ghz all the time.  I use a custom liquid cooling loop to keep the heat in check.

[Guest The_sextein]

What I meant by newer games is games that came out in the last 2 years.  Games like Watch Dogs 2, Battlefield 5, Rainbow six siege, The latest Tombraider, Farcry 5, ect.  They all use 8 cores CPU's.  I'm also an SLI user and while support is not what it used to be, I build my own profiles.  Usually the second GPU lifts the bottlenecks back onto the CPU even at 4K.  So it has it's uses for gaming even now but it will become more useful in the coming years.  I don't think people need 8 cores but it has it's uses now and if I were recommending a new CPU to someone that is upgrading right now, I would recommend an 8 core cpu over a 4 core or six core.    Anyway, sorry for the derail.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Here's a little lightshow to learn about how CPU's work.

Yes, the install time in BG2 mods is used to read and write data to the permanent memory, as the files are modified bit-wise, in a very hexeditorial way, not read as 3d objects and then rendered, in where the high performance comes from CPU speeds among multiple processors.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Jarno Mikkola

[Guest The_sextein]

The CPU IPC and frequency speed matter more in single threaded apps and more cores in combination with the previously mentioned are the main effectors of multithreaded apps.  Games are still single thread limited but they are also multi threaded and run into bottlenecks below 6 cores and still benefit from 8 cores across the board.  At the moment AMD has more cores and a similar IPC to intel and Intel has a frequency advantage.  Currently, an 8 core 16 thread I9 9900KS is the fastest single threaded chip on the planet and with 16 threads it maintains a performance lead in gaming across the board.  I upgraded from a 4 core 8 thread I7 7700K and it was bottlenecked in games like Hitman 2018 and many others. 

With the PS5 packing an 8 core chip and slated for a 2020 release it would be dumb to buy anything less than an 8 core chip if you are in the market for a new CPU. Having more than 8 cores will not benefit gaming in any meaningful way for years but having less than 8 cores will cause limitations from games that are two years old and will have serious performance problems in the years to come.  I would recommend looking at Gamernexus videos on youtube or checking out Tomshardware or AnandTech where they regularly show game benchmarks of the latest chips.  With GPU limitations in place you will not need a serious CPU but if you use a 2080TI or an SLI setup you will certainly run into CPU limitations.  In the case of SLI you will run into CPU limitations even at 4K with a 9900K.  If you want 60FPS minimums there is no other hardware path you can take.  Just depends on what your standards are and in the case of overclocking your boosts...knowing how to overclock properly will allow a constant boost speed at all times.

[Guest The_sextein]

Here is a round up for best CPU's from a price vs performance standpoint.  All 8 core chips with additional multitasking benefits from the 3950X.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpus,3986.html

 

 

[subtledoctor]

Remind me why an SCS thread is being spammed with CPU reviews?

[Guest The_sextein]

It's an SCS thread about installation times which are CPU dependent.  I stated my CPU and the amount of time it took to install it.  For some reason someone decided to make false statements about modern technology so I have been arguing with them Ever since. Modern CPU's vs old 4 core chips from a decade ago when playing modern games?  Gee I wander which is more useful.  As for SCS installation times... they are directly influenced by the speed and IPC of the CPU which are naturally faster and more efficient on newer chips.

[Guest The_sextein]

This is the last I will speak of this in case it's annoying some of you but here is a list of CPU's when it comes to gaming.  More cores are better at data crunching but faster cores are better at gaming.  However, core count still matters when gaming.  More than 8 is useless.  Less than 6 cores is bottlenecked.  Check it out,  Top 20 chips are all 6 cores or higher.  8 of the top 10 chips are 8 core chips.  More cores beyond 8 provides no benefit which is why AMD's 16 core chips get beat by Intel's 8 core chips.  Less than 6 cores are bottlenecked.

The bottom line is that you want 8 cores with the fastest clock speed if you want the best equipped chip for the next 5 years.  That would be the I 9 9900K according to real world data.  Anything below 6 cores is a waste of money and next year you will see all six core chips disappear from the top 20 list.  8 core chip is the smartest move for a modern computer regarding gaming.  If you want to game and do multitasking like streaming and video encoding then a 16 core chip from AMD might be of interest but it costs more and 16 threads from Intel is no slouch in multi tasking.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-hierarchy,4312.html

[subtledoctor]

But none of that is relevant. Weidu is single-threaded. Multicore chips are useless in this context. 

[Jarno Mikkola]

2 hours ago, Guest The_sextein said:

Modern CPU's vs old 4 core chips from a decade ago when playing modern games?  Gee I wander which is more useful.  ...

As for SCS installation times... they are directly influenced by the speed and IPC of the CPU which are naturally faster and more efficient on newer chips.

Really, so it has nothing to do with the memory response speed the machine has. You know, when the unit is instructed to read a part of the game data, say a *.cre, and then read all their bits, switch the 678th bit if it's 1 to a zero, in case the 57th bit was a zero. Yes, we are talking about bit per bit percision.

There's a lot of triangles and that sort of things in that I am sure. News flash the game has 5 dimensional picture layers, yes, the rendered pictures are 4d(high & width, color & palette.. well not all of them are even palette-ed, but that's besides the point) and then there's time it's in a spot, 5d. But none of that uses rendered triangles. Or modern "3d modeling".

The reason is that the game engine was constructed 20 years ago. And the moding tools also match that, as they kinda need to.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Jarno Mikkola

[Guest The_sextein]

Quote

Yes it is single threaded which has nothing to do with IPC or clock frequency that does matter.  We got that out of the way along time ago.  You can play Baldur's Gate on a Pentium 3 without any limitation.  Don't blame me because someone got jealous and tried to make himself look smart about hardware he obviously knows nothing about.

 

[Guest The_sextein]

Hey, I'm not the one who mentioned that CPU's with more than 4 cores are useless for gaming and that we should all live in the past.  Keep erasing my posts it ain't gonna change the fact that I was correct about everything I said.  The links I provided are proof of that.  The latest 8 core chips are also the fastest clocked chips with the most efficient IPC.  So no matter how you look at it, it is relevant and their is no need to get jealous of people who have better hardware then you.  Next time don't derail the topic and I won't respond in kind.

[Mike1072]

I've moved this discussion out of the SCS thread.

I don't think anyone's been deleting your posts.  It looks like the forum might have mangled the one that's 2 posts up.  If you register for an account, you'll be able to edit your posts.

Jarno excels at derailing threads.  Sometimes it's best to ignore.