v32.7 Clones cant use quickslot items?

[arajaja]

Hey there,

so i just downloaded the 32.7 version of SCS and did an install on my BG2. I am currently doing a SD run and i noticed that i cannot use quickslot items on the shadow twin anymore. I knew before that SCS would disable this but i thought i could decide wether or not to install this component? It never asked me about it during the install if i want to install this or not. Is this always installed by default? That would be very dissappointing. 

Any advice on how i can still use items on clones with SCS installed?

Thanks

[arajaja]

Alright so playing around with the install a bit it seems this is part of the core AI component so i assume always installed? No option to turn this off? If so, i don't really understand why? I mean options are always nice and this doesn't seem to have anything to do with AI behaviour?

Is there a way to get around this? Perhaps re-enable this myself? I dont have any modding experience so unless this is super easy probably not an option for me.

Otherwise i will have to look for a different mod which is a shame because everything else of SCS seems to be exactly what i want on my BG2 install.

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by arajaja

[Bartimaeus]

It's an age-old game-breaking exploit that's fixed for obvious reasons. I'm not sure of the rationale for rolling it up into the core AI component - perhaps to make sure that the AI doesn't use it either.

[arajaja]

There is plenty more stuff in this game that is "game breaking" which isn't even considered an exploit and not fixed by SCS 

but yea why not give the player to option to turn this off or not? Why force players to install this anyway? Options are always good.

"Nooo you have to play MY way!" errr ...

Edited March 13, 2020 by arajaja

[Bartimaeus]

Presumably because DavidW didn't feel like coding up a separate component for what he thought everyone would agree is an obvious exploit that people installing a difficulty-enhancing mod would want to avoid using anyways. But I don't know for sure, and DavidW is on hiatus, so you may have to wait a while to receive an official answer. Alternatively, you can always mod the mod and disable it. Some modders have a very particular vision of how they want their mod to play, and they're by no means obligated to provide an option for every last little thing. This mod already has so many components and options as it is even before we start adding components to disable bug fixes, .

Edited March 13, 2020 by Bartimaeus

[arajaja]

Of course its his mod he can set it up however he wants to at the end of the day its my decision if i want to install it or not. Its just a shame because this one change kills the entire mod for me.

I would very much like to re-enable this myself however i dont have any modding experience. Is this difficult to do? I don't even know where i would start lol

[Jarno Mikkola]

Easy ... should be, you just need to remove a portion of the code from being used by the setup-*modname*.exe, Bartimaeus will hopefully give you details of what and where ... but all you have to do is open a text(either a .tpa or other file) file with Notepad or Notepad++, and put a punch of // before a few lines, like said, details hopefully come later. But that's really easy, and then of course reinstall the mod again, hopefully in a clean game. If it's not, the re-install will just take a lot longer. And then of course you need to restart the game without loading the saves. Dah.

[Bartimaeus]

Turns out, DavidW *did* have time to code up something for it.

During install, you can set "no_initial_change_clone_slots = 1" (default 0) in statagems\stratagems.ini. There may be other options you're interested in there as well, though not all of them are exactly clear on what they do. Easier than I expected, especially given SCS is particularly complex for Infinity Engine mods.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Bartimaeus

[Jarno Mikkola]

Also I'll remind that editing those options won't itself do anything, you need to edit them before you install the mod itself, or reinstall.

[subtledoctor]

 

14 hours ago, arajaja said:

 options are always nice and this doesn't seem to have anything to do with AI behaviour?

FWIW I think, given the scope of this mod, they are related.  SCS generally tries to put the player and AI on as even footing as possible, such that everyone plays by the same rules.  On the AI scripting side, this means really good scripts that try to get enemies to use tactics against the player that the player might use against enemies.  But certain player advantages cannot be replicated on the AI side; I suppose infinite use of finite resources via clones is one such advantage.  So if you squint, I think you can understand why the default state is to remove that exploit from the player.  (Still very nice and thoughtful of DavidW to include the option to keep the exploit, though...)

[arajaja]

Thanks a lot guys i found the ini and i am doing a install right now to see if it worked or not. If this works then i'll be very happy. I'll let you guys know if it worked or not.

Thanks a lot it is much appreciated.

[Bartimaeus]

Yep, best of luck. I have trouble reading a lot of SCS's coding because everything is insanely recursive (one thing linking to another thing linking to another thing linking to another...in a lot of shorthand coding that's not much like other mods, either, and hardly anything has readable comments). But from what I could tell, the file that links to that .ini line creates a "disable button" effect, which combined with the name of the option sounds like a match to me.

[arajaja]

It seems to have worked out just fine! I got all the SCS components installed and my clones can use quickslot items. Awesome!

Thanks again to everyone helping in this thread!

[DavidW]

This is documented, actually: removing clone quickslots is one of the spell-system changes, and all of them can be disabled in stratagems.ini.

On 3/13/2020 at 11:30 AM, Bartimaeus said:

Yep, best of luck. I have trouble reading a lot of SCS's coding because everything is insanely recursive (one thing linking to another thing linking to another thing linking to another...in a lot of shorthand coding that's not much like other mods, either, and hardly anything has readable comments). 

Sorry about that! I tend to find SCS's 'SFO' language fairly self-commenting  - but of course, that's only true if you're familiar with its function library, and that's not documented at all.

[subtledoctor]

It’s also just, people only do this in their spare time. I know when I look at my own mods after a couple weeks or months, I have to re-learn half of the Weidu involved just to understand what I was doing when I wrote them. Now apply that to something that lacks the initial familiarity of the language... and you get a knee-jerk reaction of eyes glazing over, unable to comprehend.