Roxanne's Inofficial Mod Versions

[Jarno Mikkola]

7 hours ago, Cahir said:

BTW: I'm not sure if Roxanne is she or he and it is generally unknown, but her nick implies a woman, so she's "she" for me. Just and word of explanation for Jarno in case he would like to activate himself about it. 

Well, if we look at the original SHSforums profile, we can see that it's a Male.

So I don't agree that Roxanne should be called she, but Cahir can do what ever she likes. Yes, from now on I might as well refer to Cahir as she. Let's see how she likes it.

6 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Jarno, more bad logic.

Hmm, I fail to find your logic gate opening a door in my argument. Present me a better one... or just be silent.

And by the by, I still don't see a thread in the previously linked forum about any of this stuff, or proof that there ever was one, so this is mostly just an echochamber. Boo...

[Ardanis]

13 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

I’m just saying, she has it for download under the “My Mods” section of her website, and whatever her level of knowledge about where WithinAmnesia got the work (though it was pretty clear that guy was a newbie to this stuff and could not have done it on his own)... she damn well knows that she didn’t do the work. 

Which, fair’s fair, does not make her satan at all. But the information is put there now, she knows well what the situation is. So like I said originally, she is welcome to participate around here... but if she wants to be treated with respect, there are some concrete steps she should take to show that she respects others. Like, stop offering for download the mod with stolen work. That’s pretty simple, and easy, and would go a long way. 

If you teamed up with someone to work on a project and want to host on your site along with other works of yours,  then yes, you describe the details of collaboration on mod's page and in its readme, but you put it under My Mods. If you're going to pick on such excuse for a blame with such prejudice, then like I said, it is nothing short of medieval witch hunt. Well, worse, actually.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Ardanis

[Glam Vrock]

21 hours ago, Ardanis said:

Is Roxanne even aware of the original project, to begin with? Or has she been informed of its existence, in case there were doubts? The only reason I even know about it, is because I remember a decade old thread on SHS, so if you weren't around there back then and don't check on every recently active thread now, you'd be forgiven for being ignorant.

 

15 hours ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

So the simple answer to your question Ardanis is: no.

Seems like the issue came up pretty unambiguously around page 7 of that topic you posted. Roxanne is definitely aware of the original project, which is why they made it very clear that this Seatower mod, on their website, has nothing to do with that other one, and that they "refuse to take on anything from that failed mod."

[4udr4n]

39 minutes ago, Ardanis said:

it is nothing short of medieval witch hunt. Well, worse, actually.

Likening this to a witch hunt is insane. People were killed in witch hunts, this is just a few pseudonymous internet folk irritated by the actions of another.

Roxanne clearly has the ability to make good mods, and contribute positively to the work of others, but the fragmentation caused by multiple versions of the same mod existing is extremely unhelpful to players and modders alike.

While it seems many here feel that she should take down her versions, there's very little anyone can do about it. There is minimal legal recourse available and I doubt anyone has the capital or inclination to try to leverage it.

The best course of action seems to me to be to work to demonstrate that a colloborative approach in which the stated wishes of modder regarding the use and distribution of their work are respected, yields a better experience for modders and players than the alternative. That probably means making sure that BEW is not the path of least resistance for players to get EET working, and putting more effort into inter-mod compatibility.

The way we successfully fight disinformation is not to try to silence it, it is to provide a more compelling (and correct) counter-narrative.

[CamDawg]

4 hours ago, Greenhorn said:

Roxanne was ( and is ) one of the most able remaining modders left in this particular community. She helped me ( and many other players besides ) countless times so much so that you could rely on her almost to the degree of all round the clock tech support. I played her stuff and found good and bad sides to it, not everybody's cup of tea, definitely but not without merits too . I don't mind some things that bother other people but including other modders work without their consent is serious misstep ( not abandoned mods in one form or the other but maintained stuff still supported by their authors). Not because it bothers this and that player but because it represent particular modder's work in a light never envisioned or condoned by them and disrespect their work ( from the point of view of those authors). From that point things got worse. I was sorry to see her go after her jig was up ( and by all ugly things which followed) but when you make misstep ( or serious error in judgment ) you are bound to slip and fall. As for Balduran's seatower I indeed find her less guilty of two involved "authors" in that fiasco but again it was auto goal by her. I have this wishful thinking that old wrongs can be forgotten and forgiven, hatches buried  and some compromise reached for the good of all community because whether you like it or not she is talented and proficient modder. But it is not likely.  There is no good will from either side truthfully and things become more... personal. 

This right here more or less sums up why I don't generally engage on this. Players don't care what she's done, just that she's helped them. That's not a condemnation of players, mind--exclusively prioritizing the ability to quickly pile mods on your game, even if dubiously sourced¹, is a reasonable position. It just means that beating the drum endlessly about what the EE install tool actually does, while correct and justified, is a losing position as players write the whole thing off as "drama".

All those modders who put in thousands of hours and only asked for their work not to be mirrored or stolen are condemned equally because they lack "good will" or take it personally. I'll note, again, that Roxanne is still welcome here, and I'll reiterate it every time this comes up. She still sends me bug reports through Github, the only communication channel she's not abandoned, and I still fix them. I'd like her to come back, but I can only extend the invitation, not force her to accept it.

¹ Last I bothered to check, there are about 56 G3 mods available through the EE install tool. Nine of them are the current, official releases. Another 26 are pulled from their official Github repos, but not the current stable versions. The remaining 21 are pulled from a private Dropbox or worse, e.g. Roxanne's version of Amber has been quietly added back, despite the authors already having a word about that. 

[subtledoctor]

13 hours ago, Ardanis said:

If you teamed up with someone to work on a project and want to host on your site along with other works of yours,  then yes, you describe the details of collaboration on mod's page and in its readme, but you put it under My Mods. If you're going to pick on such excuse for a blame with such prejudice, then like I said, it is nothing short of medieval witch hunt. Well, worse, actually.

I honestly don't understand your repeated use of the term "witch hunt" here.  Just being overly melodramatic for rhetorical effect?

1) She has other sections of her site where downloadable mods are.  There is "My Mods - Originals," "My Mods - Adopted and Extended," and a separate section called "Fixes and tweaks."  She has already separated mods into categories other than her Sandrah NPC and the like; yet that's where she has chosen to put the Seatower thing.  You seems to be assuming there is nothing particularly intentional about that, but I don't care about intent; it looks like she is claiming authorship of something made by others.  How it looks matters.  And it is entirely fixable, and I'm suggesting that fixing it would go a long way toward being seen as a good and productive member of the community.

2) I'll say that again: it is entirely fixable.  Nobody is talking about burning anyone at the figurative stake.  If I teamed up with someone and then (very quickly) found that a substantial portion of the mod they brought to me was stolen, I simply wouldn't host it for download at all, in any section of my site.  I mean, that's a no-brainer.

Someone said something like (paraphrasing, sorry) "it's a shame Roxanne can't be around and everyone hates her."  My response is, she hasn't been banned, she can come around, and if she takes some really simple, basic steps in the direction of respecting people, people wouldn't hate her.

If you think that amounts to a "witch hunt" then you really don't know what a witch hunt is.  (Or, are you just parroting the inane usage of a certain talking orangutan?)

  

12 hours ago, 4udr4n said:

That probably means making sure that BEW is not the path of least resistance for players to get EET working

 

12 hours ago, CamDawg said:

Players don't care what she's done, just that she's helped them. That's not a condemnation of players, mind--exclusively prioritizing the ability to quickly pile mods on your game, even if dubiously sourced¹, is a reasonable position.

Thing is, the players who she is helping now may think she is giving them the easiest and best way to play EET, but do they really know?  She lies to player constantly over on her forums.  Threads about modded installs done with her tool are FULL of responses along the lines of "use the console to set this variable to X," or needing to stop and reinstall and start over, etc.  Those players think they need her to fix those bugs or get past those points in the game, and she wouldn't tell them otherwise.  She routinely claims that official versions of mods are buggy or incompatible etc.

Me?  I play with a lot of mods, and on a platform with no access to the console, at all.  (Yes, Luke, I know it can be added, but the point is I haven't had to add it.)  I don't need the console to play the game... so whose install method is really better and easier?

Edited May 7, 2020 by subtledoctor

[Greenhorn]

13 minutes ago, CamDawg said:

This right here more or less sums up why I don't generally engage on this. Players don't care what she's done, just that she's helped them. That's not a condemnation of players, mind--exclusively prioritizing the ability to quickly pile mods on your game, even if dubiously sourced¹, is a reasonable position. It just means that beating the drum endlessly about what the EE install tool actually does, while correct and justified, is a losing position as players write the whole thing off as "drama".

All those modders who put in thousands of hours and only asked for their work not to be mirrored or stolen are condemned equally because they lack "good will" or take it personally. I'll note, again, that Roxanne is still welcome here, and I'll reiterate it every time this comes up. She still sends me bug reports through Github, the only communication channel she's not abandoned, and I still fix them. I'd like her to come back, but I can only extend the invitation, not force her to accept it.

¹ Last I bothered to check, there are about 56 G3 mods available through the EE install tool. Nine of them are the current, official releases. Another 26 are pulled from their official Github repos, but not the current stable versions. The remaining 21 are pulled from a private Dropbox or worse, e.g. Roxanne's version of Amber has been quietly added back, despite the authors already having a word about that. 

A fair assessment of situation and strong opinion and stance from your side which I respect and agree without reservation. With one minor correction. 

Quote

All those modders who put in thousands of hours and only asked for their work not to be mirrored or stolen are condemned equally because they lack "good will" or take it personally.

Not by me ( as average player ) as I understand  and empathize very well why perhaps they are not flattered by her approach regarding their work. 

[Jarno Mikkola]

10 hours ago, Glam Vrock said:

 

Seems like the issue came up pretty unambiguously around page 7 of that topic you posted. Roxanne is definitely aware of the original project, which is why they made it very clear that this Seatower mod, on their website, has nothing to do with that other one, and that they "refuse to take on anything from that failed mod."

OK, so it was at page 7 that that got there, out of 10 pages. Did he got an offer to replace the maps image/images after that ? Cause that's the only way you can actually go around the commitment that had been tied into the project. This once happened with Classic Adventures diablo map. So it has happened before.

And not speaking of experience, but the TS-BP is still a thing. As is the multitude of BG2 Fixpacks. And none of those did similar to any other...

The BWS had many times been criticized about the methods it used to make intermodconectivity a thing, and those connections did sometimes call for side-effects that weren't that desirable, but they tried to solve them as they were dug from the ground. This is nothing new.

9 hours ago, 4udr4n said:

Likening this to a witch hunt is insane. People were killed in witch hunts, this is just a few pseudonymous internet folk irritated by the actions of another.

Well, people were called trolls in this very thread, and this thread is aimed at one person that's not even here, so what do you think this is then than an rally call for hatred? Or red hats.

And I agree with you that cooler hats approach is much better than the other. And indeed if the Project Infinity ever get's it's ass from the ground up better than it has so far, it might be your optimum out come. But is anyone talking about it ? And helping it ? I myself can't... cause I find no intrest on it, not have the needed coding experience that would be actually helpful.

10 hours ago, CamDawg said:

Last I bothered to check, there are about 56 G3 mods available through the EE install tool. Nine of them are the current, official releases. Another 26 are pulled from their official Github repos, but not the current stable versions.

Well, Project Infinity's download links all link to the GitHub page, not the actual download, which is the same link but with /release/ after it, and apparently some mods don't have a release version at all. -that's the reason I was given when I asked ALIEN to correct the links elsewhere.

[drakiesan]

Hello I have problem installing Sandrah Saga. I doesn't understand much what this error means. Thanks for you help.

Using EE mod setup tool.
 

Spoiler

Sandrah Worldmap Entries (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was installed successfully.
SandrahNPC for EET Core (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was installed successfully.
Mods Compatibility (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was installed successfully.
Sandrah Kit (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was installed successfully.
SandrahNPC Creatures and Items (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was installed successfully.
Sandrah Shops (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was installed successfully.
Sandrah Movies and Sounds (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was installed successfully.
SandrahNPC for EET Compiles (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was installed successfully.
Pelligram, Sandrah's Animal Companion (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was installed successfully.
Worldmap Update for SandrahNPC for EET (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was installed successfully.

WARNING: internal label [13] not found in processed DLG [JAHEIP]
SandrahNPC Extensions (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was installed with warnings.

ERROR: processing .D actions [SandrahNPC/Mods/Sanvault.d]: Invalid_argument("index out of bounds")
ERROR: Invalid_argument("index out of bounds")
Mod Interactions (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was not installed due to errors.

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by drakiesan

[Jarno Mikkola]

A warning such as the above, in the install doesn't nessasarily mean a thing. The mod installed fine and that's about it. One of the dialogs could be messed up, but that's a problem for Roxanne to find and fix about.

[drakiesan]

Now it's giving me this error...

Spoiler

Installing [Sandrah EET additions] [v2.05]
Copying 1 file ...
Copying 1 file ...
Processing quests and journals
Copying and patching 1 file ...
Copying and patching 1 file ...
Copying and patching 1 file ...
Compiling 10 dialogue files and 1 script ...

ERROR locating resource for 'CHAIN3'
Resource [CVSANDRJ.DLG] not found in KEY file:
    [./chitin.key]
ERROR: preprocessing APPEND_EARLY [SandrahNPC/Sod/BG1ResolveSkie.d]: Failure("resource [CVSANDRJ.DLG] not found for 'CHAIN3'")
Stopping installation because of error.

ERROR Installing [Sandrah EET additions], rolling back to previous state
Will uninstall  94 files for [SANDRAHNPC/SETUP-SANDRAHNPC.TP2] component 16.
Uninstalled     94 files for [SANDRAHNPC/SETUP-SANDRAHNPC.TP2] component 16.
ERROR: Failure("resource [CVSANDRJ.DLG] not found for 'CHAIN3'")
Please make a backup of the file: SETUP-SANDRAHNPC.DEBUG and look for support at: Roxanne - https://baldursextendedworld.com/Sandrah/ or roxanne@baldursextendedworld.com
Automatically Skipping [Sandrah EET additions] because of error.
Using Language [English]
weidu_external/lang/english/setup.tra file not found. Skipping...
[.\lang\en_us\dialog.tlk] created, 476258 string entries

SUCCESSFULLY INSTALLED      SandrahNPC Check for required Installation

SUCCESSFULLY INSTALLED      Sandrah Worldmap Entries

SUCCESSFULLY INSTALLED      SandrahNPC for EET Core

SUCCESSFULLY INSTALLED      Mods Compatibility

SUCCESSFULLY INSTALLED      Sandrah Kit

NOT INSTALLED DUE TO ERRORS Pelligram, Sandrah's Animal Companion

SUCCESSFULLY INSTALLED      Worldmap Update for SandrahNPC for EET

NOT INSTALLED DUE TO ERRORS SandrahNPC Extensions

NOT INSTALLED DUE TO ERRORS Shauhana for Shadow of Amn EET

NOT INSTALLED DUE TO ERRORS Sandrah ToB (EET)

NOT INSTALLED DUE TO ERRORS Sandrah Return To Faerun Transition

NOT INSTALLED DUE TO ERRORS Sandrah EET additions

C:\Games\Baldur's Gate EET\Baldur's Gate II - Enhanced Edition>SandrahNPC Check for required Installation (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was installed successfully.
Sandrah Worldmap Entries (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was installed successfully.
SandrahNPC for EET Core (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was installed successfully.
Mods Compatibility (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was installed successfully.
Sandrah Kit (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was installed successfully.

ERROR: Failure(" Sandrah NPC Core not installed!")
Pelligram, Sandrah's Animal Companion (Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears) was not installed due to errors.
The following will not be installed without the component:

Sandrah Saga II - Return to Faerun [New]

Sandrah Saga III - Time of Troubles Revisited [New]

Sandrah X-files Unearthed [New]

Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears:
0002: SandrahNPC for EET Core [New]
0016: Sandrah EET additions [New]
0015: Sandrah Return To Faerun Transition [New]
0009: Pelligram, Sandrah's Animal Companion [New]
0004: Sandrah Kit [New]
0003: Mods Compatibility [New]
0010: Worldmap Update for SandrahNPC for EET [New]
0001: Sandrah Worldmap Entries [New]
0000: SandrahNPC Check for required Installation [New]
0014: Sandrah ToB (EET) [New]
0013: Shauhana for Shadow of Amn EET [New]
0011: SandrahNPC Extensions [New]

 

 

[Lightbringer]

Something definitely went wrong there. You'll want to ask Roxanne for help on her forums ( baldursextendedworld <dot> com ), since she's the mod maker.

[4udr4n]

On 5/7/2020 at 1:16 AM, Jarno Mikkola said:

if the Project Infinity ever get's it's ass from the ground up better than it has so far, it might be your optimum out come. But is anyone talking about it ? And helping it ? I myself can't... cause I find no intrest on it, not have the needed coding experience that would be actually helpful.

I am using PI, recommending it elsewhere, reporting issues and making feature suggestions. If I had any useful skills I would contribute more directly.

On 5/7/2020 at 1:16 AM, Jarno Mikkola said:

Well, Project Infinity's download links all link to the GitHub page, not the actual download, which is the same link but with /release/ after it, and apparently some mods don't have a release version at all. -that's the reason I was given when I asked ALIEN to correct the links elsewhere.

@AL|EN has repeatedly answered you to explain that PI already does download the latest release wherever a release is available, but that not all mods use releases. Roxanne, @Artemius I, InfinityMods, OlvynChuru, @Ulb, and @Angel all have mods that only have masters on GitHub right now. Presumably, as PI cannot guarantee that a modder will continue to use releases, it makes sense to link to the project page?

[Jarno Mikkola]

21 minutes ago, 4udr4n said:

Presumably, as PI cannot guarantee that a modder will continue to use releases, it makes sense to link to the project page?

Yes... Well, wouldn't it be nice to then entitle the link as Project Page, rather than "Download" ? Just painting the obvious.

Cause for sure, you won't download anything from that exact link. So rather than lying, tell the exact truth. If anyone can explain this better than me to ALIEN, I would appreciate, even a try at it. Cause I feel that this is about ALIEN's language skill, rather than his intellegence.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Jarno Mikkola

[AL|EN]

@Jarno Mikkola The "Download=" keyword has two pupose:

1. Provide download link for mods which aren't hosted on GitHub > user click on it and download new version

2. Provide automatic updates for GitHub mods, according to docs.