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Cahir

Cahir's EET Epic Run Mod Order help request

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The IRv4 hotfix is here. But note, you don’t need this if you use the FnP item/proficiency changes component.

Re Shadow Druids: I went back and forth on this, and went so far as to design 80% of a “shadowy” druid kit; but in talking with a bunch of players we decided that “Shadow Druid” simply refers to their affiliation, not kit abilities. So there is no Shadow Druid kit. For Faldorn, given her semi-undead special summon, it might make sense to make her a Lost Druid. 

Re Cavalier: FnP roughly re-creates the vanilla paladin kits as followers of particular deities. I think the Cavalier-ish kit is the paladin of Tyr. The vanilla, deity-less kit isn’t available in the menus, but it should still work in-game. Only the trueclass cleric lacks spells - and there, only if it is a multiclass combination that the sphere system isn’t aware of. 

Technical sidebar: multiclass kits inherit the kit abilities of the underlying trueclass CLAB__01.2DA tables. This cannot be stopped. The spheres are applied via kit-specific opcode 177 effects. If we give trueclass clerics sphere access the easy way, all MC clerics would get those spheres, even if they should be forbidden. So we give the trueclass cleric its own spheres the same way, via 177 effects as well, directed at “kit = ‘no kit.’” But this means that when you do have a kit, that isn’t anticipated - Assassin/Cleric, say - then none of the 177 effects apply to it, and it lacks spells. This also screws up kit->cleric dual-classing (I think)... but not trueclass-cleric duals, and I recommend the “Dual to Kit” mod which is geared toward trueclass->kit dualling. 

None of that applies to paladins, which cannot multi- or dual-class. All paladin kits work fine. BUT: you know, if you don’t want deity-based paladins (and neutral and evil champions), you don’t have to install FnP paladin kits. If you want Faldorn and Arath to be Avengers, and don’t foresee using a Hivekeeper or Northern Druid, and don’t care about FnP’s expanded shapeshifting, then you don’t have to install FnP druids. The four vanilla kits should work. (Admittedly it’s been a long time since I tested, since mostly I test things that I change, not things that go unchanged. But the mod has code specifically to handle this situation.)

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Those new starting XP tweaks in SoB alter STARTARE.2da and SODSTRTA.2da. I think those files are ignored in EET if you start in Candlekeep and play through continuously. The values in those files are set to 64000 and 89000 by default, so if you’re worried about it, you should be very worried about EET without this mod. But I don’t think you need to worry, I think those only come into play if you start a new campaign at one of those two points. @K4thos or someone who has played EET can tell you for sure. 

Those components are really geared for someone like me, who plays all three campaigns separately. I recently finished SoD with almost 500k XP, then I spent weeks getting BG2 modded just right, and when I roll a character to continue... I have a paltry 89K XP. SoB can fix that now. 

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19 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

The IRv4 hotfix is here. But note, you don’t need this if you use the FnP item/proficiency changes component.

I just found an old post where you mention this. Ah well, another I can remove!

 

20 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Re Shadow Druids: I went back and forth on this, and went so far as to design 80% of a “shadowy” druid kit; but in talking with a bunch of players we decided that “Shadow Druid” simply refers to their affiliation, not kit abilities. So there is no Shadow Druid kit. For Faldorn, given her semi-undead special summon, it might make sense to make her a Lost Druid. 

Does FnP do this automatically or should we use NPCEE?

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19 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

None of that applies to paladins, which cannot multi- or dual-class. All paladin kits work fine. BUT: you know, if you don’t want deity-based paladins (and neutral and evil champions), you don’t have to install FnP paladin kits. If you want Faldorn and Arath to be Avengers, and don’t foresee using a Hivekeeper or Northern Druid, and don’t care about FnP’s expanded shapeshifting, then you don’t have to install FnP druids. The four vanilla kits should work. (Admittedly it’s been a long time since I tested, since mostly I test things that I change, not things that go unchanged. But the mod has code specifically to handle this situation.)

It's not that I don't want to use FnP kits, I do, I like them very much. It's just in *some* cases vanilla kits suits my needs more. And it's confusing to me which exactly multiclass kits are asigned to each NPC (you listed the single class kits in FnP thread, but multiclass kits are still not clear to me).  And as you've said I don't want to end up not be able to select any spells.

 

23 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Those new starting XP tweaks in SoB alter STARTARE.2da and SODSTRTA.2da. I think those files are ignored in EET if you start in Candlekeep and play through continuously. The values in those files are set to 64000 and 89000 by default, so if you’re worried about it, you should be very worried about EET without this mod. But I don’t think you need to worry, I think those only come into play if you start a new campaign at one of those two points. @K4thos or someone who has played EET can tell you for sure. 

So, from what you say, EET handles XP progression on its own, basically unsuring XP continuity. That's good to know. We really would appreciate @K4thos' insight, though. Where are you, bro? 🙁

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Cahir said:

It's just in *some* cases vanilla kits suits my needs more.

2 hours ago, 4udr4n said:

Does FnP [make Faldorn a Lost Druid] automatically or should we use NPCEE?

NPC_EE, or the like.  We could put it in FnP, but I feel like that is  particular vision for her, and would want some discussion with player before committing to it.  We could put several options in FnP... but then, why put the effort into that when NPC_EE/SCS give you all the options?  This is the circle my brain goes in when I think about NPCs.

2 hours ago, Cahir said:

So, from what you say, EET handles XP progression on its own,

That's what I assume.  I've never played through EET.  Plenty of people have though, anyone could confirm this.  The starting XP in thos .2da files is for when you generate a new character in this or that campaign; think about it, the character generation screens need to know to give you the right amount of hit dice, and proficiencies, and thief skill points, etc.  The engine does this with reference to the starting XP value, and the class XP tables in XPLevel.2da.  But if you are not starting a new character at mid/high level - if you do character generation at 0 XP, in Candlekeep - then this should be irrelevant.

2 hours ago, Cahir said:

it's confusing to me which exactly multiclass kits are asigned to each NPC (you listed the single class kits in FnP thread, but multiclass kits are still not clear to me).  And as you've said I don't want to end up not be able to select any spells

FnP MC NPC assignments:

  • Jaheira = fighter/forest druid
  • Branwen = fighter/cleric of Tempus
  • Quayle = mage/cleric of Baravar
  • Tiax = thief/cleric of Cyric
  • Yeslick = fighter/cleric of Clangeddin
  • Glint = thief/cleric of Baravar
  • Aerie = mage/cleric of Baervan
  • Anomen = fighter/cleric of Helm* (actually not sure why... as a dual, he should probably have the SC cleric kit)
  • Dusky = thief/cleric of Mask
  • Korin = ranger/cleric of Mielikki
  • Nella = fighter/forest druid or earth mystic warrior, depending on how you set her class during installation
  • Turald = cleric of Marthammor Duin* (is Turald multiclass?)

The last four are all IWDEE NPCs

Basically, with FnP, multiclass clerics need cleric kits. 

2 hours ago, Cahir said:

It's just in *some* cases vanilla kits suits my needs more.

This is always going to vary from player to player, which is why I think a general-use mod like NPC_EE/L1NPCs/SCS is the way to go.  I'll be the first to admit NPC_EE is still a bit rough around the edges.  It really needs a "don't change anything, just make this ability disappear!" option (unless I already added that - I forget), and it needs the ability to decide about changing proficiencies on a case-by-case basis, in the spell ability itself, rather than universally at install-time.  And it needs to work better with the FnP sphere system - currently, if you use it to change a cleric from one kit to another, you usually end up with some extra spells.  It could probably use an install option to put the kit-change spell into the game, but not give it to any NPCs, so that it can be invoked from the console but it otherwise out of sight.  I could also trigger it from an item - that way you could just drop the item and walk away if you don't want to use it on this or that NPC.  (This is currently how Mazzy's kit change works in FnP.)  Lots of things to be done, some of which are fairly complex, and which take time to make and test... sigh.

Edited by subtledoctor

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I notice that @Cahir uses HiddenGameplayOptions:0:All available options which I believe is @argent77 mod, while @4udr4n uses the EEUITweaks mod component "EEUITweaks:1010:Hidden Game Options".  Is there a reason you've taken these different approaches?

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From what I understand @argent77's mod have more options than this EEUI Tweaks component. This is at least my assumption. Not sure what was @4udr4nmotivation@4udr4nmotivation, though. 

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55 minutes ago, Caedwyr said:

I notice that @Cahir uses HiddenGameplayOptions:0:All available options which I believe is @argent77 mod, while @4udr4n uses the EEUITweaks mod component "EEUITweaks:1010:Hidden Game Options".  Is there a reason you've taken these different approaches?

I don't feel I gain anything from HiddenGameplayOptions:0 and want to minimise the number of mods (lol!) where possible to reduce potential for compatibility issues. Both are actively maintained by respected modders, so it's unlikely to be an issue, but as I'm already using LeUI and want other components from EEUITweaks I went with lefreut's version.

I'm interested to hear how @Cahir finds any of the features in HiddenGameplayOptions that are not in EEUITweaks.

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I notice that you've got

Quote

bubb_revert_pathfinding:0:Bubb's v2.5.16.6+ Pathfinding Revert

Fairly far down the list.  Is this just because of when you found this, or was there a reason to put it on the list after some of the class and kit mod components?

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Actually, it's just there because there's no guidance on install order but it almost certainly won't affect anything else. I've no idea if it would work before EET_end. I left it dead last so I can uninstall it without issues if I need to.

I'm about to rework my install order to facilitate easy re-installation, pushing mods that are either unstable, in active development or that I'm trying out later in the install order. Will post when I do.

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The bubb_revert_pathfinding is an baldur.exe patch so it doesn't matter when it will be installed.

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37 minutes ago, AL|EN said:

The bubb_revert_pathfinding is an baldur.exe patch so it doesn't matter when it will be installed.

Does EET mess with the .exe?

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Yes it does but it also uses 'patching' os no worries.

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Posted (edited)

I didn't read the whole topic, so forgive me for my question. But... wasn't Subtledoctor guide for installing (I seem to have found it in the past but I can't find it now) enough to install all the "mods" correctly?

Edited by Arthas

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@Arthas It was only a general advice regarding types of the mods and they probably the correct position at the install order. If you want to have correct one, you need to go through all those details and special cases. It depends on which mods you would like to install and how many of them.

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