Cahir's EET Epic Run Mod Order help request

[Cahir]

8 hours ago, Cahir said:

Oh, fantastic introduction to BG1 mods! You may just persuaded me to install couple of them. Especially your feedback regarding DToSC and NTotSC was illuminating. I'll ponder about installing those two and the others you mentioned. I'll probably not install spells and items from NTotSC since I'll already will have Abu dance of those to use. As for the difficulty I don't plan to go crazy with SCS difficulty (mostly Improved, or Basic where I feel Improved would be too much for me). I want the game to be fun and challenging, without beeing frustrating. I don't want to rage quit from this game, like ever

@Lightbringer I thought about your suggestions and came up with the following:

- The Stone of Askavar - decided to give it a try. Seems fun and balanced.

- Ascalon's Questpack - also will give it a spin. I remember I liked BGQE very much back in the old days. If AC is comparable, I'll enjoy it.

- Twas' Slow Boat to Kara-Tur - not going to install, it seems mod ended in beta state and is reported a bit buggy and unpolished

- The Gray Clan - unfortunately I do mind there is no conclusion in part 2, so pass for this one.

- Dark Side of the Sword Coast - I'll thought about it quite a bit, but decided to pass. I'm not fond of fighting my way out through hordes of duergars. Also checked the item changes file and even nerfed those spells and items are way OP by B1 standards. I want to avoid situation that finding good gear in BG2, I'll say to myself "Meh, I've got better equipment in BG1". Though choice, but I'll pass on this one. It's possible that I will decide to do a megamod OP run and then I put all crazy quest mods in the pack, just to check them out. This run is serious, and balance. I didn't play BG in years (last time I played BGEE at launch, didn't even finish BG2EE and just started to see SoD to see how it looks). So this run will be like a chunk of candies, almost a virgin run I'm helluva excited.

- Northern Tales of the Sword Coast - I'm inclined to install this one, though, but I have a couple of questions before I decide:

• are you sure there is a separate component for installing spells and items? I checked the newest version (3.2.0)  in Project Infinity and I don't see it. I see only main quest, a bunch of side quests and additional fighting encounters.
• There are two components: Nim Furlwing's Hunting Grounds and Svlast's Torment. I think these are mutually exclusive from similar BG1 Unfinished Business components. Am I right?

[Lightbringer]

2 hours ago, Cahir said:

@Lightbringer I thought about your suggestions and came up with the following:

- The Stone of Askavar - decided to give it a try. Seems fun and balanced.

- Ascalon's Questpack - also will give it a spin. I remember I liked BGQE very much back in the old days. If AC is comparable, I'll enjoy it.

- Twas' Slow Boat to Kara-Tur - not going to install, it seems mod ended in beta state and is reported a bit buggy and unpolished

- The Gray Clan - unfortunately I do mind there is no conclusion in part 2, so pass for this one.

- Dark Side of the Sword Coast - I'll thought about it quite a bit, but decided to pass. I'm not fond of fighting my way out through hordes of duergars. Also checked the item changes file and even nerfed those spells and items are way OP by B1 standards. I want to avoid situation that finding good gear in BG2, I'll say to myself "Meh, I've got better equipment in BG1". Though choice, but I'll pass on this one. It's possible that I will decide to do a megamod OP run and then I put all crazy quest mods in the pack, just to check them out. This run is serious, and balance. I didn't play BG in years (last time I played BGEE at launch, didn't even finish BG2EE and just started to see SoD to see how it looks). So this run will be like a chunk of candies, almost a virgin run I'm helluva excited.

- Northern Tales of the Sword Coast - I'm inclined to install this one, though, but I have a couple of questions before I decide:

• are you sure there is a separate component for installing spells and items? I checked the newest version (3.2.0)  in Project Infinity and I don't see it. I see only main quest, a bunch of side quests and additional fighting encounters.
• There are two components: Nim Furlwing's Hunting Grounds and Svlast's Torment. I think these are mutually exclusive from similar BG1 Unfinished Business components. Am I right?

Your judgements are what I anticipated, based on your requirements, and are the most likely to not produce headaches for you. I debated mentioning DSotSC, as it seemed the most likely to be outside of your parameters.

For Northern Tales, I think the separate component I was remembering was for Dark Side. I'm not sure what extra spells and such NTotSC adds. I think it was Dark Side that does that. Sorry for the confusion.

Those two NTotSC components are also included in UB, iirc. Feel free to use whichever source you wish. I think I went with UB.

I thought about bringing up the bug reports on Slow Boat. Honestly, I didn't run into any issues. The quest initiated just fine, I found the encounter, and the shop and reward were waiting for me. There were some spelling errors in a few of the item descriptions, but I just ignored it. You'll have to decide for yourself what your tolerance for such things is.  Mine is (I gather) on the high side for community.

The reward item is really cool -- a head slot wearable by anyone with upgradeable abilities -- sort of a blindsight bandana (the lore is much more descriptive). It was perfect for my monk charname -- enough that I made it her constant headpiece for the whole saga. Regardless, it's a small mod, and you'll be fine without it if you so choose. It has a permanent slot in my mod list.

Also, I wouldn't sweat SCS too much. I generally avoid difficulty mods like the plague, as I do not like frustration. I love SCS. Now that you can adjust the difficulty by component in real time during a playthrough, there's no reason not to dive in. I also started out with everything on the Improved settings. I actually got a little disappointed in the casters, so I bumped it up to Tactical. I've left it there since early BG1. When you do your OP Megamod run (which is kind of what I'm doing now), be sure to check out the Tactical Challenges components. Might avoid them for this quasi-virgin run of yours.

I think I might post a write up of my powergamer-but-not-munchkin modding strategy, once I've finished the playtesting it. I've kind of taken half of everyone's suggestions and smashed them together, adding my own ideas to the mix. It's worked really well so far. (The gist is -- give me all the power, but make me earn every piece of it, pile on all the content available, no caps and no reductions but everyone multiclasses to reduce overleveling, and use SCS to keep things from being too easy)

One last word about NToTSC. It does increase the power curve of BG1. Not terribly, but it does do so. I don't consider this a bad thing, as I have always felt BG1 was overly lacking in a power curve -- especially compared to the rocket ride of BG2. If you are expecting to finish your modded BG1 with the same power level as an unmodded BG1, then you should avoid most everything I listed except maybe the quest packs. If you're fine with being maybe 20-30% more powerful when you take on Sarevok -- and thus less likely to have to resort to the boring wand of summons strategy -- then these will serve you very well.

Have fun with your run, dude! It sounds like you're getting set up for a helluva great ride. I know mine has been so far

Edited April 20, 2020 by Lightbringer

[Cahir]

24 minutes ago, Lightbringer said:

Your judgements are what I anticipated, based on your requirements, and are the most likely to not produce headaches for you. I debated mentioning DSotSC, as it seemed the most likely to be outside of your parameters.

For Northern Tales, I think the separate component I was remembering was for Dark Side. I'm not sure what extra spells and such NTotSC adds. I think it was Dark Side that does that. Sorry for the confusion.

Those tow NTotSC components are also included in UB, iirc. Feel free to use whichever source you wish. I think I went with UB.

I thought about bringing up the bug reports on Slow Boat. Honestly, I didn't run into any issues. The quest initiated just fine, I found the encounter, and the shop and reward were waiting for me. There were some spelling errors in a few of the item descriptions, but I just ignored it. You'll have to decide for yourself what your tolerance for such things is.  Mine is (I gather) on the high side for community.

The reward item is really cool -- a head slot wearable by anyone with upgradeable abilities -- sort of a blindsight bandana (the lore is much more descriptive). It was perfect for my monk charname -- enough that I made it her constant headpiece for the whole saga. Regardless, it's a small mod, and you'll be fine without it if you so choose. It has a permanent slot in my mod list.

Also, I wouldn't sweat SCS too much. I generally avoid difficulty mods like the plague, as I do not like frustration. I love SCS. Now that you can adjust the difficulty by component in real time during a playthrough, there's no reason not to dive in. I also started out with everything on the Improved settings. I actually got a little disappointed in the casters, so I bumped it up to Tactical. I've left it there since early BG1.

One last word about NToTSC. It does increase the power curve of BG1. Not terribly, but it does do so. I don't consider this a bad thing, as I have always felt BG1 was overly lacking in a power curve -- especially compared to the rocket ride of BG2. If you are expecting to finish your modded BG1 with the same power level as an unmodded BG1, then you should avoid most everything I listed except maybe the quest packs. If you're fine with being maybe 20-30% more powerful when you take on Sarevok -- and thus less likely to have to resort to the boring wand of summons strategy -- then these will serve you very well.

Have fun with your run, dude! It sounds like you're getting set up for a helluva great ride. I know mine has been so far

Thank you @Lightbringer, that's very helpful, as usual! I'm OK for my power level to be higher than in unmodded game, I like to feel powerful (without being OP) and would like to keep up with SCS stuff. I'm more worried to stumble upon items that are more powerful than items I will stumble at the beginning of BG2 or even in SoD. But in worst case scenario I can just refuse to use OP items or just sell it. Let's see, but I'm inclined to include NTotSC to my list, without Will O'Hara NPC, which I'm not interested in. 

[Lightbringer]

Glad to hear it. I think you'll like NTotSC. Your power level tastes sound similar to my own. With everything I found in BG1, I still got some upgrades in SoD. I installed the keep all items tweak for EET, then proceeded to stash almost all of them in Mira's chest. I actually like the big reset in BG2, as I love the joy of discovering new toys.

Plus, I have almost all the mega and quest mods for BG2 installed, so there will be no shortage of swag to pilfer

[jastey]

25 minutes ago, Cahir said:

I'm more worried to stumble upon items that are more powerful than items I will stumble at the beginning of BG2 or even in SoD.

That definitely should no longer be the case in NTotSC.

[Cahir]

1 minute ago, Lightbringer said:

Glad to hear it. I think you'll like NTotSC. Your power level tastes sound similar to my own. With everything I found in BG1, I still got some upgrades in SoD. I installed the keep all items tweak for EET, then proceeded to stash almost all of them in Mira's chest. I actually like the big reset in BG2, as I love the joy of discovering new toys.

Plus, I have almost all the mega and quest mods for BG2 installed, so there will be no shortage of swag to pilfer

For BG2 I mostly go for Lava's mods which are top notch and I really want to try The Cowled Menace, because I'm sucker for mods oriented to p&p lore. Also I think Fading Promises looks promising, so I chose it. Quest Pack and UB is always a must for many players. 

[Cahir]

4 minutes ago, jastey said:

That definitely should no longer be the case in NTotSC.

Thank you for confirmation, @jastey. That's really reassuring. 

[Cahir]

New addition: Northern Tales of the Sword Coast.

I'm slowly getting to there. If you guys have any more suggestions regarding install order or new mod addition that would be great. I'll be probably go with installation during weekend. So there's still couple of days for adjustments.

[subtledoctor]

You'll definitely want to use an XP-reducing mod.  In my last BG1 run I played NTotSC, UB, ACQuest, and MQ&E (and then some NPCs and stuff) and I very simply cut in half all XP gained from killing enemies.  That turned out pretty well: at Sarevok my party had around 150K-200K, and at the end of SoD around 400K. 

[Cahir]

13 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

You'll definitely want to use an XP-reducing mod.  In my last BG1 run I played NTotSC, UB, ACQuest, and MQ&E (and then some NPCs and stuff) and I very simply cut in half all XP gained from killing enemies.  That turned out pretty well: at Sarevok my party had around 150K-200K, and at the end of SoD around 400K. 

Good point. I'm not sure 50% or 25% will be good for me. I'm by no means such an experience player as you, and don’t want to end up under-leveled vs SCS enemies. Definitely don't want to reduce xp fo quests, but for enemies, sure, good call.

[Cahir]

Ok, now it's time to find some decent portrait pack for my Charname. I found Super Ultimate Portrait Pack for BG:EE, but it's an exe install, so I'm not sure how it would work. Did anyone try this portrait pack? Will it work? Any issues during instalation or in game?

Also, do you know any good sound pack? I know Awesome Soundpack, but it's about that. Any more decent soundpacks?

[Cahir]

1 hour ago, Cahir said:

Good point. I'm not sure 50% or 25% will be good for me. I'm by no means such an experience player as you, and don’t want to end up under-leveled vs SCS enemies. Definitely don't want to reduce xp fo quests, but for enemies, sure, good call.

@subtledoctor I've been thinking, is there an EET-compatible tweak that would reduce XP for killing monsters but only for BGEE portion? Or even better, that would allow different XP reduction % for each campaign? I think EET Tweaks component reduces XP for the whole trilogy? The thing is, I don't have any significant quest content for SoD planned, and in BG2EE I would love to feel like powerful badass. On the other hand I installed quite a few quest mods for BGEE portion, where as you suggested 50% reduction seems very reason able to nor be overleveled in SoD. 

[Lightbringer]

 @CahirDid you install the various tactical challenge options for SCS?  In particular, the Improved Final Encounter (Sarevok)?  If so, I wouldn't reduce XP at all, and remove caps.  It's a dang tough fight. I was able to win, but barely, and it took me a couple of tries. Not frustrating, but a big challenge to chew on.

Let's see... DSotSC and Grey Clan added a good chunk of XP that you wouldn't have, plus Secret of Bone Hill early on. I also kept a version of BG2 XP for traps, locks, and spell learning. (reduced for by about half for spell levels 1-3, full for spell levels 4+, and traps/locks xp reduced by diminishing amounts until thief level 7 whereupon normal amounts resumed).

Upon facing Sarevok, I had about 860k XP, or 430k XP per class, multiclassed.  This meant my paladin was level 10, and my other multiclasses were around 9/10 or so, depending on class. On an almost completely vanilla run with the cap removed, I remember reaching level 9 with my monk upon entering the Undercity.

Basically, I was about 2 levels higher for the end of BG1, 3 for my one single classed character.  And that was with no reduction, a few more substantial mods, and spell/trap/lock xp. With your modlist, and assuming you don't allow skill/spell xp (or use the minimus versions), you can probably shave a full level off of my results.

I entered the Chateau at about 1.3 million XP.  That may sound like a huge jump, but it meant only about 1 more level in each class for my multiclassed characters. Basically, I start BG2 at about level 10/10, or 11 single. With none of my great gear, I still found the SCS version of the chateau to be quite a nice challenge, with duergar instead of goblins and only 1 rest allowed.

@subtledoctor and I have differing views on balancing BG-EET. If I recall, correctly (and please correct me if I don't, Doc) he prefers to adhere closer to the vanilla feel and progression. I'm comfortable with a stronger power curve . You'll need want to take that into consideration as you weigh our varied suggestions

Edited April 20, 2020 by Lightbringer

[subtledoctor]

The problem is, after Sarevok you’ve got close to a million XP, and then everything is going to be a boring cakewalk until the SoD boss (and even there, tough as that fight is, you don’t need more than ~300-400K XP to do it without to much trouble. (Hint: use lots of potions and lots of summons.)

Then starting SoA you’ve got ~1.3 million XP, and everything is a boring cakewalk until to hit a dragon or a lich. Dragons and liches are only about 1-2% of the game. I’d rather make 98% of the game fun and challenging, and maybe turn down the SCS difficulty for the odd dragon or lich. 

Ultimately, you are *supposed* to be under-leveled, relative to certain enemies like Davaeorn and Sarevok. Even with SCS, those encounters are geared to be handled with ~80K and 160K XP, respectively. 

This is just my opinion, of course. And I don’t install Grey Clan or DSotSC so I don’t face many uber-powerful enemies. And for the few you face there are plenty of resources to deal with them at ‘normal’ levels. 

@Cahir at least for mods tgat change monster XP (like the one in SoB, probably the one in EET Tweaks too) you can install it at the very very end of your order, and just uninstall/reinstall it with different values as you start different campaigns. (Or indeed, at any time you like.) Don’t know if the same holds for other XP mods, like the ones that alter quest XP rewards. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by subtledoctor

[Lightbringer]

Idk, I haven't really found things to be a boring cakewalk, for SoD or for BG2 so far. I actually nearly got my butt kicked by the pirates behind the Inn in the docks.  NPC groups are quite dangerous. Hephernaan in SoD was far harder than the end boss. Interestingly, I one-shotted the lich in SoD river caves with a backstab before all his protections triggered. The caster group in the dwarven city was a beefy challenge but quite satisfying.

I haven't really felt truly in danger a whole lot, but that's right in the sweet spot for me. I prefer to feel perfectly measured to crush my enemies. I don't want to walk through them like tissue paper, but I'm good with balsa wood. Maybe pine. But no harder.

I also don't always take my full party with me everywhere. Sometimes I have my charname solo for a bit, or have just her and a couple warriors. If she gets into too much trouble by herself (oops! she found a cluster of myconids and umber hulks and is perma-confused and being pummeled to death), I don't hesitate to ctrl-J in an appropriate character and pretend they've been shadowing her to assist. Or reload a save and try again.  For bigger battles I always include everyone, strategize, and still might have to try it a couple times to avoid a character death, or a frustrating mass-save-failure. I also don't rest spam. I try to avoid using resources, and I typically don't rest more than once per map, often once per 2-3 maps.

I guess it all depends on play style. Even being a couple levels ahead of expectations, with SCS everything's felt just about right to me.