4udr4n's EET PI Multi-Install

[subtledoctor]

3 hours ago, 4udr4n said:

Cleric & Paladin kits are all "Priest/Cleric/Zealot/Champion of..." with the full titles like "Hand of Torm" only in the kit description

Yeah, this was an editorial decision from a while ago, I think it looks cleaner when choosing kits, (don’t have all different font sizes and readability issues), plus, back when there was a functional difference between clerics and priests/acolytes this was an easy way to see which bucket each kit fell into. Now that those differences are gone, I agree that I am swimming against the tide here...

3 hours ago, 4udr4n said:

______ has no textual kit description

Yeah, a few are unfinished. One reason it still has a “0.xx” version number. Our goal has been to make sure it is playable and functional, and then to polish things up later. 

3 hours ago, 4udr4n said:

Cleric/Mage named cleric kits appear twice

Huh, I have not seem that before. I did so much testing to make it work with multi sorcerers, I wonder if I neglected to sufficiently test without multi sorcerers. (Do you have multi sorcerers installed?)

3 hours ago, 4udr4n said:

The standard Bard is available as both a class and as a Mage/Thief kit. Is this expected?

Yes. The vanilla bard is deprecated and the “Bard” is now a mage/thief kit. But I didn’t remove the old bard class menus entirely, in case a player wants to try some other bard kits like from @Artemius I. I thought it mught be kind of rude if I changed the menu structure to prevent those kits from appearing...

3 hours ago, 4udr4n said:

Fighter/Druid is available as both a standard multiclass and a Fighter/Cleric kit option

No, the base fighter/druid should not be there, you should only have Beast Lord Warrior and the elemental Mystic Warriors. Some code to remove the base kit didn’t work right. Proper fighter/druid should be via the fighter/cleric class now. 

3 hours ago, 4udr4n said:

Halflings and Gnomes cannot choose Druid or Fighter/Druid kits. Is this intentional

Hmm... they cannot be druids in the base game, so the bug here is either 1) they should not have access to the druid class; or 2) if they have access, they should get the full range of kits. (Note, they can be multiclass druids.) I suspect we liberalized who can be druids, but the kits themselves assume the old restrictions. I’ll note this for fixing. 

Note to self, similar problem with halflings accessing the ranger menu.

4 hours ago, 4udr4n said:

There is no Paladin Truesword of Arvoreen kit or Fighter/Truesword of Arvoreen kit for Mazzy! I found the Ranger/Cleric Defender of Arvoreen. What's the rationale? Mazzy calls herself a paladin

This is the new direction we are (maybe?) moving in. Instead of having strictly defined champions and zealots, with very particular class abilities, we will have holy warriors with abilities defined on a per-kit basis. In this regard, what is the difference between rangers and paladins? They are both warriors, they both get divine casting (cleric spells, thanks to the sphere system), they both can have alignment restrictions and can ‘fall’ ... the only difference is Turn Undead vs. Stealth. So if we think a paladin should be able to use stealth, we can put use the ranger class to get that in the UI. The sourcebooks say halfling holy warriors can use stealth; I think it referred to fighter/clerics since this was 2E, but if we are letting halflings have paladins, I think that amounts to a canon rule that halfling paladins can use stealth. 

The Defender of Arvoreen kit should be available in the paladin kit menus... but looking at my install now, it isn’t there. I definitely tested that before, so a bug must have snuck in. I’ll take a look. 

[4udr4n]

1 minute ago, subtledoctor said:

swimming against the tide

Agreed, every other kit mod does full lore titles.

2 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

a few are unfinished

Would you like me to suggest content for them?

2 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Do you have multi sorcerers installed?

Yes.

3 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

the base fighter/druid should not be there

Currently, as a human I can select Fighter / Cleric and get these kit choices:

• Fighter / Cleric
• Fighter / Druid
• Barbarian Shaman
• Fighter / Various FnP kits

Under Fighter / Druid I see:

• Fighter / Druid
• Beast Lord Warrior
• 6 different XXX Mystic Warriors

7 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Note to self, similar problem with halflings accessing the ranger menu.

Halflings can only be Cleric / Rangers for me (no other Ranger options), and their kit choices are:

• Druid / Ranger
• Woodscout of Meilikki
• Windrider of Shaundakul
• Ranger / Defender of Arvoreen

10 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

I think that amounts to a canon rule that halfling paladins can use stealth. 

I like it.

[subtledoctor]

1 hour ago, 4udr4n said:

My Bladesinger has no blur aura

Huh. Will take a look. 

1 hour ago, 4udr4n said:

Chose 4 L1 spells (charm person, sleep, chromatic orb, mage armour, all memorised once) at character creation, but only 2 (orb and charm) were memorised and those 2 are the only ones available available when I use the bardic spellcasting ability. All 4 are known.

You need to initialize bardic casting mechanics (it’s an innate ability). Then, instead of thinking in terms of known spell slots and memorization slots, think in terms of three categories: known spell slots, memorization slots, and casting slots. Bards get lots of known spell slots (learn from scrolls like a wizard) and lots of casting slots (cast spontaneously like a sorcerer) but few memorization slots. You need to use the “Prepare Spells” ability before resting, that will open up your memorization slots and let you change which ones you can cast the next day. (Do this right before resting - it will prevent spellcasting until you rest.)

Note, you should have zero memorization slots at 1st level! Bards generally cannot cast spells until level 2. It is TnB stat-based bonus spells that is allowing you early access to spells, thanks to your high INT. 

1 hour ago, 4udr4n said:

I chose a Pseudo Dragon, it had the correct abilities, but when put in my pack and later released it, it had swapped Glitterdust for Nauseating Stench

Weird, I’ll have to test this more. I never saw this myself. 

1 hour ago, 4udr4n said:

I am confused by the SoB proficiency allocation

Do you have NPC_EE installed, the two systems might be interacting. Or it might be something specific to multiclasses in SoB, since multis get all kit abilities from the trueclass clab tables of both underlying classes...? This stuff can be hard to debug...

1 hour ago, 4udr4n said:

Montaron would be an excellet Thug, maybe add an option to MnG to make him one

I agree, I use NPC_EE to make him a thug all the time. Presumably Level1NPCs/SCS/EEKeeper can also accomplish the same thing. I don’t feel like adding a new, different way to achieve something that can already be achieved, especially given:

1 hour ago, 4udr4n said:

Eldoth is a basic Mage/Thief with no spells. This looks like an odd interaction between @smeagolheart's S9BGEENPCTweaks:43:Make Eldoth a Jester and might_and_guile:210:Bard Overhaul: Multiclass Bards

Yeah those seem like they are incompatible. You probably installed MnG first, which changed Eldoth to a new-style M/T bard; and then installed the tweak mod which sets his kit to the vanilla Jester, which is a kit for the vanilla bard class. M/T with a bard kit = doesn’t work. You should omit EENPCTweaks, and give him the new-style M/T Jester kit via NPC_EE, Level1NPCs, SCS, or EEKeeper. 

EDIT - no need to reinstall, you can change Eldoth’s kit after the fact. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by subtledoctor

[4udr4n]

3 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

You need to initialize bardic casting mechanics (it’s an innate ability). Then, instead of thinking in terms of known spell slots and memorization slots, think in terms of three categories: known spell slots, memorization slots, and casting slots. Bards get lots of known spell slots (learn from scrolls like a wizard) and lots of casting slots (cast spontaneously like a sorcerer) but few memorization slots. You need to use the “Prepare Spells” ability before resting, that will open up your memorization slots and let you change which ones you can cast the next day. (Do this right before resting - it will prevent spellcasting until you rest.)

Note, you should have zero memorization slots at 1st level! Bards generally cannot cast spells until level 2. It is TnB stat-based bonus spells that is allowing you early access to spells, thanks to your high INT. 

I thought I understood, but will play with this more and see. I couldn't seem to change my available spells no matter what I did, rest, use innates, etc. I always got char mand orb. I'll play around.

Are you saying I should get early access due to TnB?

5 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Do you have NPC_EE

Nope.

I am trying to set up an install where all companions just have appropriate kits and I need not respec them in game, so I'm not using SCS improved NPC management or NPCEE. I may just fall bac kto using it if I can't get this to work.

7 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

1 hour ago, 4udr4n said:

I chose a Pseudo Dragon, it had the correct abilities, but when put in my pack and later released it, it had swapped Glitterdust for Nauseating Stench

Weird, I’ll have to test this more. I never saw this myself. 

Yeah, it has happened to me on a less modded BG2EE install, and now also on this EET install, but I'm not quite sure what does it, as simply bagging and releasing does not. I'll try resting,  using familiar abilities, changign area and loading save and let you know if any of that does it.

8 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

1 hour ago, 4udr4n said:

My Bladesinger has no blur aura

Huh. Will take a look. 

I get Blur Aura if started in BG2. Is it level linked?

(Bigger issue there is that Imoen starts BG2 with STR 11 and DEX 19 as a level 24 mage!)

15 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Eldoth

Yup, he's a mess, I hadn;t thought MnG would reclass vanilla Bards, but that makes sense.

16 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

I don’t feel like adding a new, different way to achieve something that can already be achieved

Understood. As mentioned above I would prefer to choose NPC classes in advance so as to not need to break immersion, but it's looking awkward, so maybe NPCEE is the way.

[subtledoctor]

1 hour ago, 4udr4n said:

Halflings can only be Cleric / Rangers for me (no other Ranger options), and their kit choices are:

• Druid / Ranger
• Woodscout of Meilikki
• Windrider of Shaundakul
• Ranger / Defender of Arvoreen

I like it.

Sorry, I mis-remembered the kit names.  The Defender of Arvoreen is a cleric kit, and it can multiclass with ranger.  There is also a "Truesword of Arvoreen" paladin kit, which converts you into a ranger in-game to switch out Turn Undead for Stealth.  This is what Mazzy can be.  (Some people want Mazzy to stay a fighter for lore/dialogue reasons, so the mod gives her an item that you can use to become a Truesword or dispose of at your discretion.)

I just checked my current install and the Truesword isn't showing up in the paladin menus.  Need to check that.

Also, in my current install, when I have Jaheira use shaman-style casting (her WIS is really too low for effective normal casting), she is not getting the Universal spells.  It's weird because she did get universal spells in the prior install from two weeks ago, and not much has changed - I really only reinstalled mods in order to add UB, ARP, and Questpack.  That's not such a big deal, but it could be indicative of larger problems (maybe), so I need to look into it.

[subtledoctor]

On 5/4/2020 at 8:52 AM, 4udr4n said:

I thought I understood, but will play with this more and see. I couldn't seem to change my available spells no matter what I did, rest, use innates, etc. I always got char mand orb. I'll play around.

You should generally have no memorization slots in your mage spellbook.  (if you do, it means you didn't initialize the bardic casting mechnics.  At the end of a day, before resting, use the "spell preparation" ability.  This will disable spellcasting and give you some memorization slots.  Remove whatever is memorized, and choose which spells you want for the next day.  Now rest.  A few seconds after you wale up, your memorization slots will disappear from your spellbook and you will be able to cast spells in the main UI.

On 5/4/2020 at 8:52 AM, 4udr4n said:

Are you saying I should get early access due to TnB?

I'm saying, you will generally not get any spellcasting at 1st level; but if you do, it is likely thanks to TnB.

Quote

I get Blur Aura if started in BG2. Is it level linked?

Songs are level-linked, but I thought Blur Aura should be given to the Bladesinger at level 1.  Will check.

Quote

I am trying to set up an install where all companions just have appropriate kits and I need not respec them in game, so I'm not using SCS improved NPC management or NPCEE. I may just fall bac kto using it if I can't get this to work.

In that case I recommend Level1NPCs.

Edited May 9, 2020 by subtledoctor

[4udr4n]

19 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

In that case I recommend Level1NPCs.

Is it EET compatible? I thought it hadn't been updated for EE?

19 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

I thought Blur Aura should be given to the Bladesinger at level 1

That's what the kit description seems to show.

[Cahir]

24 minutes ago, 4udr4n said:

  46 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

In that case I recommend Level1NPCs.

Is it EET compatible? I thought it hadn't been updated for EE?

  46 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

I dont't think it is. At least that is my understanding by glancing at EET compatibility topic in Level1 NPC subforum. 

[subtledoctor]

19 minutes ago, Cahir said:

I dont't think it is. At least that is my understanding by glancing at EET compatibility topic in Level1 NPC subforum. 

Huh.  That's sad, I thought it was up-to-date. 

In that case your best bet might be to edit the .CRE files directly in Near Infinity.  Simply selecting a kit at 0x244 of the .CRE file is all you should need to do; the game will apply kit abilities when they join your party.

[lefreut]

8 hours ago, 4udr4n said:

Big list of issues and questions round 1 (Character creation):

1. @lefreut, I have leUI (SoD) installed, but my EEUITweaks Hidden Options/Mod options page shows in the BG2 UI. Is this expected?

I will look at this.

[4udr4n]

13 minutes ago, lefreut said:

I will look at this.

Thanks. Everything works well, it just seemed odd.

I also have had one instance of the text failing to display for the hidden options menu, I got random gibberish instead. I restarted and it had corrected, hasn't recurred. Hopefully a non-issue but I'm mentioning it just in case.

[subtledoctor]

Btw, if you are still perfecting the install process: in my own install I've found some minor but noticeable bugs in the Faiths & Powers code that allows any cleric to learn and cast like a shaman.  I'm working on an update now.  Shouldn't take too long.

[subtledoctor]

On 5/4/2020 at 8:27 AM, 4udr4n said:

Would you like me to suggest content for [kit descriptions]?

Sure!  It would be great for us, and if you want to add the text anyway... everybody wins!

If I have some spare minutes, I can also include the full kit names in the update I'm working on.

[4udr4n]

26 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Sure!  It would be great for us, and if you want to add the text anyway... everybody wins!

If I have some spare minutes, I can also include the full kit names in the update I'm working on.

Deal.

[4udr4n]

@subtledoctor I've no idea what a Weaverager of Mystra is, but how are these:

• Champion of The Red Knight (Knight of the Red Falcon) - The Red Knight, or the Lady of Strategy, is the deity of strategy and tactics. Sponsored into godhood by Tempus, Her dogma dictates the use of careful tactics in battle to achieve the most favourable victories.
  During the Time of Troubles, Lady Kaitlin Tindall Bloodhawk became the avatar of the Red Knight and defended Tethyr from a horde of monsters. Bloodhawk is now head of the Order of the Red Falcon, a martial order that trains officers and others in tactics and military history.
• Zealot of Eilistraee (Darksong Knight) - Eilistraee is the Drow goddess of beauty, song, dance, freedom, moonlight, swordwork, and hunting. Notably she is patroness and protector of those few dark elves who long to return to the surface and live at peace with other races.
  Darksong Knights are dedicated to spreading the ethos of Eilistraee, advancing her causes, and especially to slaying the yochlol, the demons who served as the handmaidens of Lolth. Almost universally female, they utilise a wild and complex dancing fighting style.
• Champion of Moradin (Hammer of Moradin) - Moradin is the chief deity or the dwarven pantheon; a harsh but fair judge, he is strength and force of will embodied.
  The Hammers of Moradin are a military order dedicated to the defense dwarven holdings and the carving out of new dwarven territories.
• Hoodwinker of Baravar Cloakshadow - Baravar Cloakshadow, the Sly One, is the gnomish deity of deception and illusions.
  Clerics of Baravar are known as Hoodwinkers and tend to be the sneakiest of gnomes, who serve their communities by instructing them in disguise and camoflage.